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Should I worry about Spin Retry Count?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 6th 09, 05:21 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Yousuf Khan
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Posts: 917
Default Should I worry about Spin Retry Count?

One of my oldest drives a 200GB Maxtor, has a spin retry count problem.
HD Sentinel reports its health at only 40% due to this. But it seems the
spin retries only happen during bootup. If I keep the machine running,
it never happens. It also doesn't happen during warm reboots, just
occasionally during the cold starts.

So I'm thinking it's got no real recurring problem, just a power-up
problem.


Yousuf Khan
  #2  
Old July 6th 09, 07:24 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Rod Speed
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Posts: 8,600
Default Should I worry about Spin Retry Count?

Yes you should.

Yousuf Khan wrote:

One of my oldest drives a 200GB Maxtor, has a spin retry count
problem. HD Sentinel reports its health at only 40% due to this.


Post the everest SMART report.

But it seems the spin retries only happen during bootup. If I keep the machine running, it never happens.


That's what you'd expect, because thats the only time the drive spins down.

It also doesn't happen during warm reboots,


Because the drive doesnt spin down then.

just occasionally during the cold starts.


It will get worse once that starts.

So I'm thinking it's got no real recurring problem,


Fraid it is.

just a power-up problem.


Spin retrys are only ever that.

It could be stiction.

It could be a weak power supply that cant deliver the startup current.

If you have a decent multimeter, you could see what happens
to the 12V rail during spinup. If it is a power supply problem,
you should be able to see the 12V sag during the spinup.

But if it sags, it could be stiction.

You could try another power supply if you have a spare, or
see if the drive still has a spinup problem in a different system.


  #3  
Old July 6th 09, 07:33 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Rod Speed
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Posts: 8,600
Default Should I worry about Spin Retry Count?

Rod Speed wrote

Yes you should.


Yousuf Khan wrote:


One of my oldest drives a 200GB Maxtor, has a spin retry count
problem. HD Sentinel reports its health at only 40% due to this.


Post the everest SMART report.


But it seems the spin retries only happen during bootup. If I keep the machine running, it never happens.


That's what you'd expect, because thats the only time the drive spins down.


It also doesn't happen during warm reboots,


Because the drive doesnt spin down then.


just occasionally during the cold starts.


It will get worse once that starts.


So I'm thinking it's got no real recurring problem,


Fraid it is.


just a power-up problem.


Spin retrys are only ever that.


It could be stiction.


It could be a weak power supply that cant deliver the startup current.


If you have a decent multimeter, you could see what happens
to the 12V rail during spinup. If it is a power supply problem,
you should be able to see the 12V sag during the spinup.


But if it sags, it could be stiction.


You could try another power supply if you have a spare, or
see if the drive still has a spinup problem in a different system.


Worth trying another power connector if it uses the older molex power connectors.

The metal tunnels can open up over time and not make very good contact and
that can produce a spinup problem at the higher than normal spin up currents.


  #4  
Old July 6th 09, 09:57 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Arno[_3_]
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Posts: 1,441
Default Should I worry about Spin Retry Count?

Yousuf Khan wrote:
One of my oldest drives a 200GB Maxtor, has a spin retry count problem.
HD Sentinel reports its health at only 40% due to this. But it seems the
spin retries only happen during bootup. If I keep the machine running,
it never happens. It also doesn't happen during warm reboots, just
occasionally during the cold starts.


Not that surprisong, considering "spin retry" indicates
problems with starting the motor spindle that rotates the
platters.

So I'm thinking it's got no real recurring problem, just a power-up
problem.


It is a recurring problem, as it can just happen during power-up
or when you do a spin stop-start cycle. It can be that is only
happens when the disk is physically cold, as the lubricants are
a bit thicker then.

Likely fault sources: Power supply, 12V line to HDD, HDD motor
driver, lubricants getting older and thicker. Historically it could
also be stiction (heads sticking to platters), but the HDD
manufacturers claim it does not happen anymore with the surface
coatings now used.

Arno
  #5  
Old July 6th 09, 01:50 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
H. P. Holm
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Posts: 3
Default Should I worry about Spin Retry Count?

"Yousuf Khan" wrote...

One of my oldest drives a 200GB Maxtor, has a spin retry count problem.
HD Sentinel reports its health at only 40% due to this. But it seems the
spin retries only happen during bootup. If I keep the machine running, it
never happens. It also doesn't happen during warm reboots, just
occasionally during the cold starts.

So I'm thinking it's got no real recurring problem, just a power-up
problem.


I had 2 x 200GB DiamondMax10 drives fail last year. One refused to spin up
one morning without warning, and the other got worse on spin retry and was
unable to wake from standby or hibernate. It had the problem when testing in
3 different computers and plenty of power.

It is a very real problem and it doesn't heal itself.

--
Hans

  #6  
Old July 6th 09, 05:43 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
edfair[_12_]
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Posts: 1
Default Should I worry about Spin Retry Count?


Agree with all of the above possible external causes but anything on the
board that affects throughput of current to the motor can be a cause and
would also include the motor itself as a likely culprit.

And agree that it only gets worse until one day it doesn't spin at all.
Then everything is lost, or not economically recoverable, depending on
the value you place on the contents.


  #7  
Old July 7th 09, 05:12 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Rod Speed
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Posts: 8,600
Default Should I worry about Spin Retry Count?

edfair wrote:

Agree with all of the above possible external causes
but anything on the board that affects throughput of
current to the motor can be a cause


There's **** all of that and even less that produces
the sort of intermittent problem he is getting.

and would also include the motor itself as a likely culprit.


Nope, that doesnt usually produce an intermittent problem.

And agree that it only gets worse until one day it doesn't spin
at all. Then everything is lost, or not economically recoverable,
depending on the value you place on the contents.



  #8  
Old July 7th 09, 06:39 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Yousuf Khan
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Posts: 917
Default Should I worry about Spin Retry Count?

Rod Speed wrote:
Post the everest SMART report.


[ Maxtor 6L200R0 (L50148VG) ]

03 Spin Up Time 63 176 169 24587
OK: Value is normal
04 Start/Stop Count 0 253 253 1183
OK: Always passing
05 Reallocated Sector Count 63 253 253 0
OK: Value is normal
06 Read Channel Margin 100 253 253 0
OK: Value is normal
07 Seek Error Rate 0 253 252 0
OK: Always passing
08 Seek Time Performance 187 239 235 35599
OK: Value is normal
09 Power-On Time Count 0 187 187 63561
OK: Always passing
0A Spin Retry Count 157 224 206 20
OK: Value is normal
0B Calibration Retry Count 223 253 252 0
OK: Value is normal
0C Power Cycle Count 0 251 251 981
OK: Always passing
C0 Power-Off Retract Count 0 253 253 0
OK: Always passing
C1 Load/Unload Cycle Count 0 253 253 0
OK: Always passing
C2 Temperature 0 41 253 38
OK: Always passing
C3 Hardware ECC Recovered 0 253 251 21462
OK: Always passing
C4 Reallocation Event Count 0 253 253 0
OK: Always passing
C5 Current Pending Sector Count 0 253 253 0
OK: Always passing
C6 Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count 0 253 253 0
OK: Always passing
C7 Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate 0 199 199 0
OK: Always passing
C8 Write Error Rate 0 253 252 0
OK: Always passing
C9 vendor-specific 0 253 252 1
OK: Always passing
CA vendor-specific 0 253 252 0
OK: Always passing
CB vendor-specific 180 253 252 0
OK: Value is normal
CC vendor-specific 0 253 252 0
OK: Always passing
CD vendor-specific 0 253 252 0
OK: Always passing
CF vendor-specific 0 224 207 23
OK: Always passing
D0 vendor-specific 0 253 252 0
OK: Always passing
D1 vendor-specific 0 241 241 154
OK: Always passing
D2 vendor-specific 0 253 252 0
OK: Always passing
D3 vendor-specific 0 253 252 0
OK: Always passing
D4 vendor-specific 0 253 252 0
OK: Always passing


It could be a weak power supply that cant deliver the startup current.

If you have a decent multimeter, you could see what happens
to the 12V rail during spinup. If it is a power supply problem,
you should be able to see the 12V sag during the spinup.

But if it sags, it could be stiction.

You could try another power supply if you have a spare, or
see if the drive still has a spinup problem in a different system.



Actually, the power supply was the first thing I suspected. It was
replaced a couple of months back with a relatively high-end Zalman 600W
one. The new power supply solved a bunch of other unrelated problems on
other drives in the system, but the spin retry problem still occurs on
this drive.

Yousuf Khan
  #9  
Old July 7th 09, 06:51 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Yousuf Khan
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Posts: 917
Default Should I worry about Spin Retry Count?

Arno wrote:
Likely fault sources: Power supply, 12V line to HDD, HDD motor
driver, lubricants getting older and thicker. Historically it could
also be stiction (heads sticking to platters), but the HDD
manufacturers claim it does not happen anymore with the surface
coatings now used.


The power supply is new, just a few months old, and it's a 600W Zalman
now (replaced a 400W noname unit). Though other unrelated hard drive
problems have gone away after the replacement of the PS, this problem
still occurs.

Stiction sounds more like something that would've destroyed the drive
ages ago (i.e. heads touching platters sounds like it'll scratch the
platters to death). I think this spin retry problem has been occurring
for at least two years on this drive. It used to be my Windows boot
drive, but I've since moved all OS-related data away off of it, onto a
newer drive.

Yousuf Khan
  #10  
Old July 7th 09, 06:59 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Yousuf Khan
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Posts: 917
Default Should I worry about Spin Retry Count?

H. P. Holm wrote:
I had 2 x 200GB DiamondMax10 drives fail last year. One refused to spin
up one morning without warning, and the other got worse on spin retry
and was unable to wake from standby or hibernate. It had the problem
when testing in 3 different computers and plenty of power.

It is a very real problem and it doesn't heal itself.



That's why I moved all of my OS-related data off of it, onto a new
drive. This used to be my boot drive. However, this problem has
persisted for at least two years, as far as I can tell. Yet, I've had
other drives which were both several years newer and gave much fewer
prior SMART warnings, die on me much earlier than this drive has. IOW,
I've been worried about this drive dying for several years, but instead
other drives have died ahead of it. That's why I'm getting skeptical
about the value of this spin retry warning.

Yousuf Khan
 




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