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I think I've solved my Spin Retry Count problem



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 18th 09, 06:57 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Franc Zabkar
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Posts: 1,121
Default I think I've solved my Spin Retry Count problem

On 18 Sep 2009 01:38:09 GMT, Arno put finger to
keyboard and composed:

Yousuf Khan wrote:
[...]
I had previously suspected the IDE cables to be the culprits, so I did
change them, but that didn't help any at that time. So at that point I
began suspecting the drive itself was getting old (which it is). Looks
like now that it's going through SATA cables instead of IDE ones, that
the cables were the culprit, even with the newer IDE cables. I'm not
sure if this is endemic to IDE cables in general, or if it was just two
bad IDE cables in a row.


Yousuf Khan


Well, it is nice that the problem went away, but I frankly cannot
imagine any way an IDE cable would be responsible. Did you change or
at least unplug/replug the power connections? Bad power
connections can cause spin problems as especially old drives
draw a lot of power on spindle startup.

Arno


I agree. There seems to be no plausible causal relationship between a
faulty data cable and a spin retry issue. It would be a bit like
blaming a flat tyre on a flat battery.

I'd be watching and comparing other SMART attributes, eg ...

201 C9 Soft Read Error Rate (Number of off-track errors)

207 CF Spin High Current (Amount of surge current used to spin up the
drive)

208 D0 Spin Buzz (Number of buzz routines needed to spin up the drive
due to insufficient power)

209 D1 Offline Seek Performance (Drive’s seek performance during its
internal tests)

This article attempts to explain the SMART attributes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R....T._attributes

Here are the OP's previous data:

C9 *vendor-specific * * * * * * * * * *0 * *253 *252 * * * * * 1
CF *vendor-specific * * * * * * * * * *0 * *224 *207 * * * * *23
D0 *vendor-specific * * * * * * * * * *0 * *253 *252 * * * * * 0
D1 *vendor-specific * * * * * * * * * *0 * *241 *241 * * * * 154

If the OP is handy with a multimeter, he may be able to measure the
actual startup current by locating the current sense resistors for the
spindle motor and measuring the voltage across them.

In Seagate drives that employ an ST Microelectonics "SMOOTH" spindle
motor and voice coil motor (VCM) combo controller chip, there will be
five parallel connected 1R00 (1.00 ohm) resistors. The four 1R00
resistors sense the VCM current.

Here is a datasheet for an L7250 controller:
http://wandrew.regruppa.ru/PCInfo/Te...50(Smooth).pdf

I believe this may be the OP's PCB:
http://www.tux-tech.ca/images/logo/pcb.jpg

The spindle motor current sensing resistors appear to be R512, R511,
R510, ...


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
  #12  
Old September 18th 09, 10:51 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
YKhan
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Posts: 264
Default I think I've solved my Spin Retry Count problem

On Sep 18, 1:57*am, Franc Zabkar wrote:
I agree. There seems to be no plausible causal relationship between a
faulty data cable and a spin retry issue. It would be a bit like
blaming a flat tyre on a flat battery.


There is one possibility that might explain it that I've been thinking
of recently. When the drive was connected via IDE, it was one of the
first drives detected by the BIOS, whereas now that it's connected via
SATA it's one of the last drives. It's perhaps possible that the
additional resting time in between gives it more time to get ready for
the BIOS when the detection procedure comes around to it.


Yousuf Khan
  #13  
Old September 18th 09, 10:57 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
YKhan
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Posts: 264
Default I think I've solved my Spin Retry Count problem

On Sep 18, 1:24*am, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
It's probably more to do with the fact hat you have now converted the
drive to SATA. *Those plug-in converters are notoriously unreliable
(especially if you buy the ebay cheapo ones). I've used several
different ones with mixed results. *How do you know the SMART data is
getting through from the drive correctly, if at all?


As a matter of fact, I did get them on Ebay. They are not perfect, I
found them to be pretty finicky about being pushed in tightly, but
once they started working without flaw.

How do I know that the SMART data is getting through? Well because HD
Sentinel displays them, quite simply. HDS always polls that data, it's
not saved data.

Yousuf Khan
  #14  
Old September 18th 09, 11:01 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
YKhan
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Posts: 264
Default I think I've solved my Spin Retry Count problem

On Sep 18, 1:18*am, Wad Medani wrote:
His cables were round instead of falt ribbon and over the 18" length
spec limit so it could have very well been his cables. Round cables
are for case mod doodz and not computer savvy minded people.


There were two drives connected through that same cable. It was always
just the one drive that had any problems, the other one didn't. There
are good reasons for non-case-mod-doodz to use rounded cables too:
they are more flexible, and they allow better airflow.

Yousuf Khan
  #15  
Old September 19th 09, 01:09 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Rod Speed
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Posts: 8,600
Default I think I've solved my Spin Retry Count problem

YKhan wrote:
On Sep 18, 1:57 am, Franc Zabkar wrote:
I agree. There seems to be no plausible causal relationship between a
faulty data cable and a spin retry issue. It would be a bit like
blaming a flat tyre on a flat battery.


There is one possibility that might explain it that I've been thinking
of recently. When the drive was connected via IDE, it was one of the
first drives detected by the BIOS, whereas now that it's connected via
SATA it's one of the last drives. It's perhaps possible that the
additional resting time in between gives it more time to get ready for
the BIOS when the detection procedure comes around to it.


That wouldnt produce spin retry counts in the SMART stats.


  #16  
Old September 19th 09, 01:22 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Franc Zabkar
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Posts: 1,121
Default I think I've solved my Spin Retry Count problem

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:51:12 -0700 (PDT), YKhan put
finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sep 18, 1:57*am, Franc Zabkar wrote:
I agree. There seems to be no plausible causal relationship between a
faulty data cable and a spin retry issue. It would be a bit like
blaming a flat tyre on a flat battery.


There is one possibility that might explain it that I've been thinking
of recently. When the drive was connected via IDE, it was one of the
first drives detected by the BIOS, whereas now that it's connected via
SATA it's one of the last drives. It's perhaps possible that the
additional resting time in between gives it more time to get ready for
the BIOS when the detection procedure comes around to it.


AIUI, all drives spin up as soon as power is applied, unless you have
enabled PUIS (power up in standby), in which case the BIOS or the OS
could stagger the spinup. But I still can't see how either scenario
could affect the spin retry count.

Maybe warmer weather has made the fluid bearing a little less viscous
???

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
  #17  
Old September 19th 09, 02:11 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Arno[_3_]
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Posts: 1,441
Default I think I've solved my Spin Retry Count problem

YKhan wrote:
On Sep 17, 9:38?pm, Arno wrote:
Well, it is nice that the problem went away, but I frankly cannot
imagine any way an IDE cable would be responsible. Did you change or
at least unplug/replug the power connections? Bad power
connections can cause spin problems as especially old drives
draw a lot of power on spindle startup.

Arno


The power connections were all brand new when the new power supply was
previously installed. The exact same power cables are still attached,
but now the data cables are SATA.


Very strange indeed.

Arno
  #18  
Old September 19th 09, 02:15 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Arno[_3_]
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Posts: 1,441
Default I think I've solved my Spin Retry Count problem

Wad Medani wrote:
On 18 Sep 2009 01:38:09 GMT, Arno wrote:



Well, it is nice that the problem went away, but I frankly cannot
imagine any way an IDE cable would be responsible. Did you change or
at least unplug/replug the power connections? Bad power
connections can cause spin problems as especially old drives
draw a lot of power on spindle startup.

Arno


His cables were round instead of falt ribbon and over the 18" length
spec limit so it could have very well been his cables. Round cables
are for case mod doodz and not computer savvy minded people.


For interface errors and data corruption, yes. But for
Spin-Retry? How would that work?

Incidentially I have made good experiences with rounded cables
as long as they were twisted pair, it was at least ATA66
(has mandatory checksums) and cable length was at or below 60cm.
The only problem I was with a CD burner that only used ATA33,
apparently without the checksums that are optional below ATA66.

Arno

  #19  
Old September 19th 09, 02:19 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Arno[_3_]
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Posts: 1,441
Default I think I've solved my Spin Retry Count problem

YKhan wrote:
On Sep 18, 1:57?am, Franc Zabkar wrote:
I agree. There seems to be no plausible causal relationship between a
faulty data cable and a spin retry issue. It would be a bit like
blaming a flat tyre on a flat battery.


There is one possibility that might explain it that I've been thinking
of recently. When the drive was connected via IDE, it was one of the
first drives detected by the BIOS, whereas now that it's connected via
SATA it's one of the last drives. It's perhaps possible that the
additional resting time in between gives it more time to get ready for
the BIOS when the detection procedure comes around to it.


Actually that makes sense. Or that it just has more time to spin-up
before it is detected and needs to answer commands.

Arno
  #20  
Old September 19th 09, 02:21 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Arno[_3_]
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Posts: 1,441
Default I think I've solved my Spin Retry Count problem

Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:51:12 -0700 (PDT), YKhan put
finger to keyboard and composed:


On Sep 18, 1:57?am, Franc Zabkar wrote:
I agree. There seems to be no plausible causal relationship between a
faulty data cable and a spin retry issue. It would be a bit like
blaming a flat tyre on a flat battery.


There is one possibility that might explain it that I've been thinking
of recently. When the drive was connected via IDE, it was one of the
first drives detected by the BIOS, whereas now that it's connected via
SATA it's one of the last drives. It's perhaps possible that the
additional resting time in between gives it more time to get ready for
the BIOS when the detection procedure comes around to it.


AIUI, all drives spin up as soon as power is applied, unless you have
enabled PUIS (power up in standby), in which case the BIOS or the OS
could stagger the spinup. But I still can't see how either scenario
could affect the spin retry count.


Maybe warmer weather has made the fluid bearing a little less viscous
???


Hehe, possible.

But my theory would be auto-spin and if a command arrives before
spin-up is complete, have the spin-problem. It may just be that
it now has more time to complete spin-up before it needs to
answer requests.

Arno

 




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