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  #21  
Old December 16th 17, 05:44 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,022
Default No Video from PC

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 21:24:12 -0500, Paul
wrote:

And this teaches us, that "resistance" or "heating" circuits must
be welded together for safety, not soldered.


Tell that to the Italians. The base "pro" model to this:
https://www.lapavoni.com/en/product/milano-mln/
I have, is maybe 10-years-old. Total hell for an appliance, daily
cycling hot and cold to steam pressurized boiler water. A rebuild on
commercial equipment of this nature may involve a torch for
"stretching" loose metal from an amount of possible corrosion build-up
to mechanical connections. Lugs and dedicated standoff plastic
screw-in receptacles are used for routing power, within in the base
beneath the boiler.

My toaster oven was
very safe, when it passed away, but all the internal components were
made of high temperature metals, and the components were welded
together with a spot welder. This makes it impossible for
home repair guys to fix it with tin/lead solder and twisting
some wires together. The solder can get hot enough in service,
to melt and drop off.


Probably what I got, when this all-aluminum Panasonic went on a sale
for half off ...
https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-NB-.../dp/B008C9UFDI

If you do decide to rewire it, think about all the ways
*not* to re-wire it. Wiring low-current loads is a
lot easier and (apparently) safer, than high current
loads.


I'm only after one effect: the most possible insulation and added
ruggedness possible. I'll be using heatshrink sparingly and with an
idea to location, stress and usage, and the heaviest insulated wire I
can find.

When I built my stereo amp for my second computer, to
run conventional speakers, I placed a cartridge fuse
on the AC input. Just for "luck", if you know what
I mean. There is not a lot of power there, but there
is a potential for Formica-burning mayhem, given an
opportunity.


It's way past that point for this espresso maker. The boiler is
basically solid, besides eventual gaskets for presently light leaks.
That's the "business end": the 115V heater element brings it up to
15bar pressure, inside, measured by the manometer, the gauge to the
side top, on the Italian pictures. The next critical step will
tearing down the "group head", where the water is routed to the
coffee;- it's also leaking, (only when fully extended and briefly at
the top), from the top core stem driving the piston inside the group
head. That makes "pre-soaks" pretty much an untenable technique.

There's a whole "elitist" groups on sites dedicated to this stuff, as
well a fair market for used renovations on Ebay. Mine, what I've in
mind for the shape it's in -- on Ebay, anyone would immediately run
away, in a flat-out sprint.

It's beyond cartridge fuses. It's going to be direct AC wiring to the
boiler element with a minimum of a switch. Totally stand over it
while in operation. Preferably on insulated rubber-sole boots.
Toolmaker caliber thinking and potentially dangerous for an otherwise
UL consumer nightmare.

In espresso-making terminology it's called "surfing" (the
temperatures) on top of an extraction. Despite the looks, it actually
can taste darn pretty good when done right. I guess, I'm certainly no
Barista with my operation, although I do enjoy that machine with
imported green coffee beans, I roast, from all over the world!
  #22  
Old December 16th 17, 03:21 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Larc[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 332
Default No Video from PC

On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 00:44:52 -0500, Flasherly wrote:

| On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 21:24:12 -0500, Paul
| wrote:
|
| And this teaches us, that "resistance" or "heating" circuits must
| be welded together for safety, not soldered.
|
| Tell that to the Italians. The base "pro" model to this:
| https://www.lapavoni.com/en/product/milano-mln/
| I have, is maybe 10-years-old. Total hell for an appliance, daily
| cycling hot and cold to steam pressurized boiler water. A rebuild on
| commercial equipment of this nature may involve a torch for
| "stretching" loose metal from an amount of possible corrosion build-up
| to mechanical connections. Lugs and dedicated standoff plastic
| screw-in receptacles are used for routing power, within in the base
| beneath the boiler.
|
| My toaster oven was
| very safe, when it passed away, but all the internal components were
| made of high temperature metals, and the components were welded
| together with a spot welder. This makes it impossible for
| home repair guys to fix it with tin/lead solder and twisting
| some wires together. The solder can get hot enough in service,
| to melt and drop off.
|
| Probably what I got, when this all-aluminum Panasonic went on a sale
| for half off ...
| https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-NB-.../dp/B008C9UFDI

That's the kind of stuff I like to buy. I'm still using a Panasonic microwave oven I
bought 24 years ago. It's had almost daily use and still works as well as it did on
the first day.

Larc
  #23  
Old December 16th 17, 08:56 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,022
Default No Video from PC

On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 10:21:33 -0500, Larc
wrote:

That's the kind of stuff I like to buy. I'm still using a Panasonic microwave oven I
bought 24 years ago. It's had almost daily use and still works as well as it did on
the first day.


People like you, the reviews I was reading when I came across the
Panasonic, are the only reason I became interested and bought it. That
and the sale price. I enjoy it now, lightweight aluminum and easy to
carry, access and cleaning accounted in design. Also worth forgoing
conventional toaster and settings, as I mostly now bake my own
breads;- wheat and whole grains are denser breads for toasting
purposes. Billed as well for an oven, though, its limited there, as I
see it, with the heating elements not well suited for messy
preparations that splatter or drip.

No luck here with microwaves. Back then, a better brand I thought to
select gave up after ten years. Obviously not as good as Panasonic.
But basic microwaves are next to nothing now;- boring once sized,
provided the magnetron continues to retain its power. Dropping some
bucks on real features, maybe entails maybe a newer hybrid microwave
and convention setup. Dunno. Haven't looked into it yet. The two or
three units prior, my last was $50, for the time before breaking down,
is reasonable for Walmart sale-of-the-day stuff.
  #24  
Old December 18th 17, 10:14 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default No Video from PC

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 4:58:35 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Saturday, July 12, 2014 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-4, Flasherly wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 23:55:59 -0400, Michael Black
wrote:

Is that accurate anymore? I don't think my current computer has a speaker
built into it.
Get a little piezo transducer speaker with tiny leads for localized
block mounted. Included on some MBs, hold onto to it when updating;-
should be a purchasable item, couple bucks maybe shipped off Ebay from
Singapore.

Class D amps kits are another relatively cheap one. Wish they induded
those already layered into a MB for the onboard sound chip.


OK. Thanks to my severely limited Dell E310 losing it's audio capability after a bluescreen crash I believe was due to a flaky hard drive connection(thanks to the frequent failures to find the hard drive on previous boot attempts) I decided to dig out the Compact Presario(SR1920NX) that I gave up on almost 3-1/2 years ago after not getting any sound from the audio beep test. No sound from the motherboard F.Audio header connected to the case output jack, not via a sound card, and not from the little black barrel shaped object that says WT-1205(BUZZ1 in the manual diagram).

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psuddiaen5.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psf9qwxsyu.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psbamkrbgy.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...pss1p6mrig.jpg

So, two days ago I hooked this PC back up and turned on the power only to get nothing... Except the green light on the power supply that comes on when you plug in the AC cord. So that was short lived.

Yesterday, before writing the PC off I tried again... And it came on three consecutive times. Both the power supply and the CPU fans spun up with no problem. So I'm thinking that the previous day's failure to power on was due a power supply issue. Perhaps the connection to the motherboard.

Anyway, I hit another roadblock. I cannot move the drive cage out of the way to get to the main power connector so I can test it with my DMM. The reason is because even though the online instruction manual I found shows three tabs are to be pressed to swing open the front panel, on my PC there is only a single tab at the top.

https://mans.io/files/viewer/500768/6#navigate_bar
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psjuhpaghq.jpg

So I can loosen the top left corner of the front of the PC, but nothing else.

Today I figured I'd turn on the PC only to find it is back to not working again. :-(

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


That Photobucket has turned into an advertising
trash heap! I had to kill the browser from Task Manager,
and the PC speaker was still beeping 30 seconds later.
I cleaned out the browser, before using it again.

*******

All I can suggest to you, for the PC that doesn't start,
is to check the CR2032 CMOS battery and see if it's dropped
to zero volts.

This doesn't happen on all computers. Some seem to run a
connection from the battery (as VBAT) to the SuperI/O. I've
never been able to trace down why they might want to do that.
It almost seems like the voltage is treated as a logic level,
and when the voltage gets low enough, it disables the PS_ON signal
or something.

With a multimeter, you connect the black lead to chassis ground
(a screw on an I/O connector will do). The red lead you touch
to the top (+) of the battery. A good battery reads 3.0V or higher.
The practical end of battery life, is around 2.3V. And it takes
about three weeks to drop from 2.3V down to nothing. That gives some
idea how short the "shoulder" of the battery discharge curve is.

If you put a computer in storage, with the battery in place,
the RTC draws 10uA from the battery, and it takes about three
years to drain the battery. Then, you buy another battery.

Always check the battery type before replacing it. CR2032
are not rechargeable. The LR2032 are a rechargeable type
with a lower maH rating, and the motherboard recharges those,
even from 0 volts. The LR2032 is more common in laptops.

I'm constantly replacing them here. And so, when a computer is put
back in the junk room, I pull the battery before storing it.

On some PCs, it's a pain to remember all the correct CMOS settings
the next time I use it. But if the CMOS CR2032 drains to zero
anyway, the settings will still be lost. So one way or another,
storage for longer than three years, means a little extra work
getting the BIOS set up properly again.

Paul


Because of what you said I'll have to find another site to host my pics. Photobucket has always bogged down my pc like no other site. I can have a dozen tabs open with no problem, but a single Photobucket window would bring any computer to it's knees.

And to make things worse: https://petapixel.com/2017/07/01/pho...-embedded-web/

They just went from free to $400 to host your photos for a year. Now since you can only download one of your own images at a time and there is a 20 image limit, it seems as though they are either shutting down or drastically changing the business model and this is a final shakedown. "...from hell's heart I stab at thee."

Anyway, I picked up some Energizer CR2032 batteries only to find the computer has started powering on again.

Nevertheless, I still get no beep/s whatsoever when I power on with the memory removed. Not from the motherboard and not from the headphones when plugged into the front or back of the case. I'm assuming the piezo transducer speakers I have will make no difference, correct?

The last thing I can think of is re-seating the CPU. I can't re-seat all the cables until I figure out a way to get the case all the way open. But then I guess checking the main power connector with my Multimeter is all I can do.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
  #25  
Old December 19th 17, 02:25 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 749
Default No Video from PC

wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 4:58:35 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Saturday, July 12, 2014 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-4, Flasherly wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 23:55:59 -0400, Michael Black
wrote:

Is that accurate anymore? I don't think my current computer has a speaker
built into it.
Get a little piezo transducer speaker with tiny leads for localized
block mounted. Included on some MBs, hold onto to it when updating;-
should be a purchasable item, couple bucks maybe shipped off Ebay from
Singapore.

Class D amps kits are another relatively cheap one. Wish they induded
those already layered into a MB for the onboard sound chip.
OK. Thanks to my severely limited Dell E310 losing it's audio capability after a bluescreen crash I believe was due to a flaky hard drive connection(thanks to the frequent failures to find the hard drive on previous boot attempts) I decided to dig out the Compact Presario(SR1920NX) that I gave up on almost 3-1/2 years ago after not getting any sound from the audio beep test. No sound from the motherboard F.Audio header connected to the case output jack, not via a sound card, and not from the little black barrel shaped object that says WT-1205(BUZZ1 in the manual diagram).

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psuddiaen5.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psf9qwxsyu.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psbamkrbgy.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...pss1p6mrig.jpg

So, two days ago I hooked this PC back up and turned on the power only to get nothing... Except the green light on the power supply that comes on when you plug in the AC cord. So that was short lived.

Yesterday, before writing the PC off I tried again... And it came on three consecutive times. Both the power supply and the CPU fans spun up with no problem. So I'm thinking that the previous day's failure to power on was due a power supply issue. Perhaps the connection to the motherboard.

Anyway, I hit another roadblock. I cannot move the drive cage out of the way to get to the main power connector so I can test it with my DMM. The reason is because even though the online instruction manual I found shows three tabs are to be pressed to swing open the front panel, on my PC there is only a single tab at the top.

https://mans.io/files/viewer/500768/6#navigate_bar
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psjuhpaghq.jpg

So I can loosen the top left corner of the front of the PC, but nothing else.

Today I figured I'd turn on the PC only to find it is back to not working again. :-(

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

That Photobucket has turned into an advertising
trash heap! I had to kill the browser from Task Manager,
and the PC speaker was still beeping 30 seconds later.
I cleaned out the browser, before using it again.

*******

All I can suggest to you, for the PC that doesn't start,
is to check the CR2032 CMOS battery and see if it's dropped
to zero volts.

This doesn't happen on all computers. Some seem to run a
connection from the battery (as VBAT) to the SuperI/O. I've
never been able to trace down why they might want to do that.
It almost seems like the voltage is treated as a logic level,
and when the voltage gets low enough, it disables the PS_ON signal
or something.

With a multimeter, you connect the black lead to chassis ground
(a screw on an I/O connector will do). The red lead you touch
to the top (+) of the battery. A good battery reads 3.0V or higher.
The practical end of battery life, is around 2.3V. And it takes
about three weeks to drop from 2.3V down to nothing. That gives some
idea how short the "shoulder" of the battery discharge curve is.

If you put a computer in storage, with the battery in place,
the RTC draws 10uA from the battery, and it takes about three
years to drain the battery. Then, you buy another battery.

Always check the battery type before replacing it. CR2032
are not rechargeable. The LR2032 are a rechargeable type
with a lower maH rating, and the motherboard recharges those,
even from 0 volts. The LR2032 is more common in laptops.

I'm constantly replacing them here. And so, when a computer is put
back in the junk room, I pull the battery before storing it.

On some PCs, it's a pain to remember all the correct CMOS settings
the next time I use it. But if the CMOS CR2032 drains to zero
anyway, the settings will still be lost. So one way or another,
storage for longer than three years, means a little extra work
getting the BIOS set up properly again.

Paul


Because of what you said I'll have to find another site to host my pics. Photobucket has always bogged down my pc like no other site. I can have a dozen tabs open with no problem, but a single Photobucket window would bring any computer to it's knees.

And to make things worse: https://petapixel.com/2017/07/01/pho...-embedded-web/

They just went from free to $400 to host your photos for a year. Now since you can only download one of your own images at a time and there is a 20 image limit, it seems as though they are either shutting down or drastically changing the business model and this is a final shakedown. "...from hell's heart I stab at thee."

Anyway, I picked up some Energizer CR2032 batteries only to find the computer has started powering on again.

Nevertheless, I still get no beep/s whatsoever when I power on with the memory removed. Not from the motherboard and not from the headphones when plugged into the front or back of the case. I'm assuming the piezo transducer speakers I have will make no difference, correct?

The last thing I can think of is re-seating the CPU. I can't re-seat all the cables until I figure out a way to get the case all the way open. But then I guess checking the main power connector with my Multimeter is all I can do.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


You connect the speaker to the 1x4 row of pins labeled SPKR.
That's where the beeping is supposed to come out.

The Line Out for the stereo speakers you use for multimedia,
doesn't get that beep. There are actually schemes for including
the startup beep into the stereo multimedia speakers, but nobody
who designs motherboards uses that feature (too annoying).

So just the piezo or case speaker beeps, and only if the twisted
pair of wires with the 1x4 on the end, connects to a 1x4 group
of pins (labeled SPKR).

Asus had a scheme, where the Vocal Post chip was tied into
the multimedia audio. The messages were low quality, and you'd
hear "now booting operating system" come through your multimedia
speakers. It would also tell you "RAM Error" and the like. As they
tied common error conditions into a playback audio message from
a pair of chips that cost a dollar or two. One chip was a Flash
that contained recorded audio messages, and you could overwrite that
with your own messages. It would take about 20 minutes to program
the Flash, so I don't think many people bothered with that. Asus
eventually stopped putting that on newer motherboards, but
as these features go, it was certainly better than nothing.
The hardest part was "translating" the messages.

Paul
  #26  
Old December 19th 17, 09:20 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default No Video from PC

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 9:25:37 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 4:58:35 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Saturday, July 12, 2014 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-4, Flasherly wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 23:55:59 -0400, Michael Black
wrote:

Is that accurate anymore? I don't think my current computer has a speaker
built into it.
Get a little piezo transducer speaker with tiny leads for localized
block mounted. Included on some MBs, hold onto to it when updating;-
should be a purchasable item, couple bucks maybe shipped off Ebay from
Singapore.

Class D amps kits are another relatively cheap one. Wish they induded
those already layered into a MB for the onboard sound chip.
OK. Thanks to my severely limited Dell E310 losing it's audio capability after a bluescreen crash I believe was due to a flaky hard drive connection(thanks to the frequent failures to find the hard drive on previous boot attempts) I decided to dig out the Compact Presario(SR1920NX) that I gave up on almost 3-1/2 years ago after not getting any sound from the audio beep test. No sound from the motherboard F.Audio header connected to the case output jack, not via a sound card, and not from the little black barrel shaped object that says WT-1205(BUZZ1 in the manual diagram).

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psuddiaen5.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psf9qwxsyu.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psbamkrbgy.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...pss1p6mrig.jpg

So, two days ago I hooked this PC back up and turned on the power only to get nothing... Except the green light on the power supply that comes on when you plug in the AC cord. So that was short lived.

Yesterday, before writing the PC off I tried again... And it came on three consecutive times. Both the power supply and the CPU fans spun up with no problem. So I'm thinking that the previous day's failure to power on was due a power supply issue. Perhaps the connection to the motherboard.

Anyway, I hit another roadblock. I cannot move the drive cage out of the way to get to the main power connector so I can test it with my DMM. The reason is because even though the online instruction manual I found shows three tabs are to be pressed to swing open the front panel, on my PC there is only a single tab at the top.

https://mans.io/files/viewer/500768/6#navigate_bar
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psjuhpaghq.jpg

So I can loosen the top left corner of the front of the PC, but nothing else.

Today I figured I'd turn on the PC only to find it is back to not working again. :-(

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
That Photobucket has turned into an advertising
trash heap! I had to kill the browser from Task Manager,
and the PC speaker was still beeping 30 seconds later.
I cleaned out the browser, before using it again.

*******

All I can suggest to you, for the PC that doesn't start,
is to check the CR2032 CMOS battery and see if it's dropped
to zero volts.

This doesn't happen on all computers. Some seem to run a
connection from the battery (as VBAT) to the SuperI/O. I've
never been able to trace down why they might want to do that.
It almost seems like the voltage is treated as a logic level,
and when the voltage gets low enough, it disables the PS_ON signal
or something.

With a multimeter, you connect the black lead to chassis ground
(a screw on an I/O connector will do). The red lead you touch
to the top (+) of the battery. A good battery reads 3.0V or higher.
The practical end of battery life, is around 2.3V. And it takes
about three weeks to drop from 2.3V down to nothing. That gives some
idea how short the "shoulder" of the battery discharge curve is.

If you put a computer in storage, with the battery in place,
the RTC draws 10uA from the battery, and it takes about three
years to drain the battery. Then, you buy another battery.

Always check the battery type before replacing it. CR2032
are not rechargeable. The LR2032 are a rechargeable type
with a lower maH rating, and the motherboard recharges those,
even from 0 volts. The LR2032 is more common in laptops.

I'm constantly replacing them here. And so, when a computer is put
back in the junk room, I pull the battery before storing it.

On some PCs, it's a pain to remember all the correct CMOS settings
the next time I use it. But if the CMOS CR2032 drains to zero
anyway, the settings will still be lost. So one way or another,
storage for longer than three years, means a little extra work
getting the BIOS set up properly again.

Paul


Because of what you said I'll have to find another site to host my pics.. Photobucket has always bogged down my pc like no other site. I can have a dozen tabs open with no problem, but a single Photobucket window would bring any computer to it's knees.

And to make things worse: https://petapixel.com/2017/07/01/pho...-embedded-web/

They just went from free to $400 to host your photos for a year. Now since you can only download one of your own images at a time and there is a 20 image limit, it seems as though they are either shutting down or drastically changing the business model and this is a final shakedown. "...from hell's heart I stab at thee."

Anyway, I picked up some Energizer CR2032 batteries only to find the computer has started powering on again.

Nevertheless, I still get no beep/s whatsoever when I power on with the memory removed. Not from the motherboard and not from the headphones when plugged into the front or back of the case. I'm assuming the piezo transducer speakers I have will make no difference, correct?

The last thing I can think of is re-seating the CPU. I can't re-seat all the cables until I figure out a way to get the case all the way open. But then I guess checking the main power connector with my Multimeter is all I can do.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


You connect the speaker to the 1x4 row of pins labeled SPKR.
That's where the beeping is supposed to come out.

The Line Out for the stereo speakers you use for multimedia,
doesn't get that beep. There are actually schemes for including
the startup beep into the stereo multimedia speakers, but nobody
who designs motherboards uses that feature (too annoying).

So just the piezo or case speaker beeps, and only if the twisted
pair of wires with the 1x4 on the end, connects to a 1x4 group
of pins (labeled SPKR).

Asus had a scheme, where the Vocal Post chip was tied into
the multimedia audio. The messages were low quality, and you'd
hear "now booting operating system" come through your multimedia
speakers. It would also tell you "RAM Error" and the like. As they
tied common error conditions into a playback audio message from
a pair of chips that cost a dollar or two. One chip was a Flash
that contained recorded audio messages, and you could overwrite that
with your own messages. It would take about 20 minutes to program
the Flash, so I don't think many people bothered with that. Asus
eventually stopped putting that on newer motherboards, but
as these features go, it was certainly better than nothing.
The hardest part was "translating" the messages.

Paul


Well the problem is that this motherboard does not have a 1x4 row of pins labeled SPKR.

Just the orange 2 x 5 header, connected to the output jack, labled F.AUDIO: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...y54gOeakFklYh9
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...ugZCqiR4p5v63_

And a little black object with "WT-1205" stamped on it: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...O4RYOIqK8HuqOB

The only 1 x 4 header is a small one in a little white housing.

There is no where to connect the speakers I have: https://www.amazon.com/JAMECO-VALUEP.../dp/B00R5CFWFO

Here is a simple board diagram: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...XfsvQPtBpgsvci

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
  #27  
Old December 19th 17, 10:55 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 749
Default No Video from PC

wrote:
On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 9:25:37 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 4:58:35 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Saturday, July 12, 2014 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-4, Flasherly wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 23:55:59 -0400, Michael Black
wrote:

Is that accurate anymore? I don't think my current computer has a speaker
built into it.
Get a little piezo transducer speaker with tiny leads for localized
block mounted. Included on some MBs, hold onto to it when updating;-
should be a purchasable item, couple bucks maybe shipped off Ebay from
Singapore.

Class D amps kits are another relatively cheap one. Wish they induded
those already layered into a MB for the onboard sound chip.
OK. Thanks to my severely limited Dell E310 losing it's audio capability after a bluescreen crash I believe was due to a flaky hard drive connection(thanks to the frequent failures to find the hard drive on previous boot attempts) I decided to dig out the Compact Presario(SR1920NX) that I gave up on almost 3-1/2 years ago after not getting any sound from the audio beep test. No sound from the motherboard F.Audio header connected to the case output jack, not via a sound card, and not from the little black barrel shaped object that says WT-1205(BUZZ1 in the manual diagram).

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psuddiaen5.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psf9qwxsyu.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psbamkrbgy.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...pss1p6mrig.jpg

So, two days ago I hooked this PC back up and turned on the power only to get nothing... Except the green light on the power supply that comes on when you plug in the AC cord. So that was short lived.

Yesterday, before writing the PC off I tried again... And it came on three consecutive times. Both the power supply and the CPU fans spun up with no problem. So I'm thinking that the previous day's failure to power on was due a power supply issue. Perhaps the connection to the motherboard.

Anyway, I hit another roadblock. I cannot move the drive cage out of the way to get to the main power connector so I can test it with my DMM. The reason is because even though the online instruction manual I found shows three tabs are to be pressed to swing open the front panel, on my PC there is only a single tab at the top.

https://mans.io/files/viewer/500768/6#navigate_bar
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psjuhpaghq.jpg

So I can loosen the top left corner of the front of the PC, but nothing else.

Today I figured I'd turn on the PC only to find it is back to not working again. :-(

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
That Photobucket has turned into an advertising
trash heap! I had to kill the browser from Task Manager,
and the PC speaker was still beeping 30 seconds later.
I cleaned out the browser, before using it again.

*******

All I can suggest to you, for the PC that doesn't start,
is to check the CR2032 CMOS battery and see if it's dropped
to zero volts.

This doesn't happen on all computers. Some seem to run a
connection from the battery (as VBAT) to the SuperI/O. I've
never been able to trace down why they might want to do that.
It almost seems like the voltage is treated as a logic level,
and when the voltage gets low enough, it disables the PS_ON signal
or something.

With a multimeter, you connect the black lead to chassis ground
(a screw on an I/O connector will do). The red lead you touch
to the top (+) of the battery. A good battery reads 3.0V or higher.
The practical end of battery life, is around 2.3V. And it takes
about three weeks to drop from 2.3V down to nothing. That gives some
idea how short the "shoulder" of the battery discharge curve is.

If you put a computer in storage, with the battery in place,
the RTC draws 10uA from the battery, and it takes about three
years to drain the battery. Then, you buy another battery.

Always check the battery type before replacing it. CR2032
are not rechargeable. The LR2032 are a rechargeable type
with a lower maH rating, and the motherboard recharges those,
even from 0 volts. The LR2032 is more common in laptops.

I'm constantly replacing them here. And so, when a computer is put
back in the junk room, I pull the battery before storing it.

On some PCs, it's a pain to remember all the correct CMOS settings
the next time I use it. But if the CMOS CR2032 drains to zero
anyway, the settings will still be lost. So one way or another,
storage for longer than three years, means a little extra work
getting the BIOS set up properly again.

Paul
Because of what you said I'll have to find another site to host my pics. Photobucket has always bogged down my pc like no other site. I can have a dozen tabs open with no problem, but a single Photobucket window would bring any computer to it's knees.

And to make things worse: https://petapixel.com/2017/07/01/pho...-embedded-web/

They just went from free to $400 to host your photos for a year. Now since you can only download one of your own images at a time and there is a 20 image limit, it seems as though they are either shutting down or drastically changing the business model and this is a final shakedown. "...from hell's heart I stab at thee."

Anyway, I picked up some Energizer CR2032 batteries only to find the computer has started powering on again.

Nevertheless, I still get no beep/s whatsoever when I power on with the memory removed. Not from the motherboard and not from the headphones when plugged into the front or back of the case. I'm assuming the piezo transducer speakers I have will make no difference, correct?

The last thing I can think of is re-seating the CPU. I can't re-seat all the cables until I figure out a way to get the case all the way open. But then I guess checking the main power connector with my Multimeter is all I can do.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

You connect the speaker to the 1x4 row of pins labeled SPKR.
That's where the beeping is supposed to come out.

The Line Out for the stereo speakers you use for multimedia,
doesn't get that beep. There are actually schemes for including
the startup beep into the stereo multimedia speakers, but nobody
who designs motherboards uses that feature (too annoying).

So just the piezo or case speaker beeps, and only if the twisted
pair of wires with the 1x4 on the end, connects to a 1x4 group
of pins (labeled SPKR).

Asus had a scheme, where the Vocal Post chip was tied into
the multimedia audio. The messages were low quality, and you'd
hear "now booting operating system" come through your multimedia
speakers. It would also tell you "RAM Error" and the like. As they
tied common error conditions into a playback audio message from
a pair of chips that cost a dollar or two. One chip was a Flash
that contained recorded audio messages, and you could overwrite that
with your own messages. It would take about 20 minutes to program
the Flash, so I don't think many people bothered with that. Asus
eventually stopped putting that on newer motherboards, but
as these features go, it was certainly better than nothing.
The hardest part was "translating" the messages.

Paul


Well the problem is that this motherboard does not have a 1x4 row of pins labeled SPKR.

Just the orange 2 x 5 header, connected to the output jack, labled F.AUDIO: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...y54gOeakFklYh9
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...ugZCqiR4p5v63_

And a little black object with "WT-1205" stamped on it: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...O4RYOIqK8HuqOB

The only 1 x 4 header is a small one in a little white housing.

There is no where to connect the speakers I have: https://www.amazon.com/JAMECO-VALUEP.../dp/B00R5CFWFO

Here is a simple board diagram: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...XfsvQPtBpgsvci

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


Digikey has a listing for the WT-1205. It's a "2.4KHz tone" buzzer.
Your error codes should beep out of there. This could be why you have
no SPKR pins. They would normally be in the lower right corner
of the motherboard, where the front panel RESET, POWER, and two LED
outputs are located. OEM computers (HP, Dell, Acer) like to use a
piezo, instead of a case speaker, because it's one less thing to
wire up, and time is money in the assembly factory.

https://www.digikey.ca/product-detai...SAAEgKgcvD_BwE

The F.Audio could be the output of the sound chip.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/su...udioheader.jpg

There are five critical pins there, and they go to the
front of the computer, to the two audio jacks. One audio jack
is Headphones, one jack is Microphone.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/su...udioheader.jpg

TRS Port1L Port1R GND (TRS = Tip Ring Sleeve of a 1/8" audio connector)

TRS Port2L Port2R GND

Modern F.audio headers don't need the two blue jumpers.
Back in the AC'97 days, Lineout came from the sound chip,
and would be "looped through" the headphone jack on the front
of the computer. If you plugged in the headphones, it defeated
the speaker LineOut (lime color) on the back of the computer.
With the headphones unplugged, the rear speaker jack would work.
If you didn't have front panel wiring connected to F.audio, you
re-installed the two blue jumpers. The motherboard comes from
the factory with the blue jumpers in place (so the Lineout works
right away).

In the HDAudio era, the sound chip has enough analog outputs,
this kooky stuff is no longer required. The F.audio header has
two jacks, sharing a common ground signal (my TRS diagram above).
There are no longer blue jumpers, and you shouldn't even add blue
jumpers to an HDAudio header.

The HDaudio jacks are even re-taskable. When the sound control
panel asks, you can tell it "this is my microphone" and the
jack goes into microphone mode. That's what re-taskable means.
(That's why my TRS diagram is not labeled with Headphones/Microphone.)
So while a store-bought computer case might label one as Headphones
and one jack as Microphone, they can be made to change roles.
The HDAudio version doesn't need the jumpers, since no signals
are looped through any more, and all the ports have their own
private signal source.

You can tell the various 2x5 headers on the motherboard, both
by their descriptive label. But they're also labeled by
"which pin is missing". You can see in the above Intel diagram,
a certain pin is missing, and that marks it as an F.audio header.
I have a header like that on my HDaudio PCI Express x1 slot
module, and it has the same purpose, to provide signals
to the front panel Headphone and Microphone jacks. I normally
connect to the back of the machine, instead (as the computer
is desk height, and the back is perfectly accessible). I can stand
upright and change audio plugs and everything.

*******

When I click your Google picture links above, I'm getting
a "login box" instead of pictures. This is all part of the
fun of "dialing in" new image servers :-) However, you've given
plenty of text description to work with, so I hope the
above gives some hints. The WT-1205 should have made a noise
when the RAM sticks were removed. It should have beeped
at 2.4KHz (which is kinda high for a beep). I like 440Hz
for a beeper, if they made such a thing.

For the F.audio, you would need to put the blue jumpers
back if your rear audio LineOut wasn't working (i.e. an AC'97
era computer). If the computer is more modern, you don't need
to do anything to that header, or ever worry about it, as your
HDAudio Lineout *always* works. The documentation for your
PC, might not be crystal clear as to what you've got. Only
if you got the PC when it was brand new, it had the blue jumper
plugs on it, might you get a hint it is AC'97 type. Some people
in the past have remembered the blue jumpers, and so I had them
put the jumpers back to make their rear audio work on Lineout.

If you buy a separate PCI audio card, of course all the motherboard
stuff no longer matters.

Oh, and the white 1x4, that's probably the audio from the CD player
goes to that header. Optical drives, some of the newer ones,
have removed audio-out. So there's nothing to connect in that
situation. Instead, there is digital audio extraction, to move
digital samples from a music CD, into the computer, and
that could be a higher quality path than the old audio
cable anyway. You can see the idiots even had more
than one standard for that connector (even if it
was an accident of some sort).

http://www.aesystems.com/cdrom_audio_connectors.html

I don't have the 1x4 white CD audio hooked up on *any*
computer here. Never used it. Nothing to worry about.

Paul
  #28  
Old December 20th 17, 09:55 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default No Video from PC

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 5:55:18 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 9:25:37 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 4:58:35 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Saturday, July 12, 2014 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-4, Flasherly wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 23:55:59 -0400, Michael Black
wrote:

Is that accurate anymore? I don't think my current computer has a speaker
built into it.
Get a little piezo transducer speaker with tiny leads for localized
block mounted. Included on some MBs, hold onto to it when updating;-
should be a purchasable item, couple bucks maybe shipped off Ebay from
Singapore.

Class D amps kits are another relatively cheap one. Wish they induded
those already layered into a MB for the onboard sound chip.
OK. Thanks to my severely limited Dell E310 losing it's audio capability after a bluescreen crash I believe was due to a flaky hard drive connection(thanks to the frequent failures to find the hard drive on previous boot attempts) I decided to dig out the Compact Presario(SR1920NX) that I gave up on almost 3-1/2 years ago after not getting any sound from the audio beep test. No sound from the motherboard F.Audio header connected to the case output jack, not via a sound card, and not from the little black barrel shaped object that says WT-1205(BUZZ1 in the manual diagram).

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psuddiaen5.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psf9qwxsyu.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psbamkrbgy.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...pss1p6mrig.jpg

So, two days ago I hooked this PC back up and turned on the power only to get nothing... Except the green light on the power supply that comes on when you plug in the AC cord. So that was short lived.

Yesterday, before writing the PC off I tried again... And it came on three consecutive times. Both the power supply and the CPU fans spun up with no problem. So I'm thinking that the previous day's failure to power on was due a power supply issue. Perhaps the connection to the motherboard.

Anyway, I hit another roadblock. I cannot move the drive cage out of the way to get to the main power connector so I can test it with my DMM. The reason is because even though the online instruction manual I found shows three tabs are to be pressed to swing open the front panel, on my PC there is only a single tab at the top.

https://mans.io/files/viewer/500768/6#navigate_bar
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psjuhpaghq.jpg

So I can loosen the top left corner of the front of the PC, but nothing else.

Today I figured I'd turn on the PC only to find it is back to not working again. :-(

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
That Photobucket has turned into an advertising
trash heap! I had to kill the browser from Task Manager,
and the PC speaker was still beeping 30 seconds later.
I cleaned out the browser, before using it again.

*******

All I can suggest to you, for the PC that doesn't start,
is to check the CR2032 CMOS battery and see if it's dropped
to zero volts.

This doesn't happen on all computers. Some seem to run a
connection from the battery (as VBAT) to the SuperI/O. I've
never been able to trace down why they might want to do that.
It almost seems like the voltage is treated as a logic level,
and when the voltage gets low enough, it disables the PS_ON signal
or something.

With a multimeter, you connect the black lead to chassis ground
(a screw on an I/O connector will do). The red lead you touch
to the top (+) of the battery. A good battery reads 3.0V or higher.
The practical end of battery life, is around 2.3V. And it takes
about three weeks to drop from 2.3V down to nothing. That gives some
idea how short the "shoulder" of the battery discharge curve is.

If you put a computer in storage, with the battery in place,
the RTC draws 10uA from the battery, and it takes about three
years to drain the battery. Then, you buy another battery.

Always check the battery type before replacing it. CR2032
are not rechargeable. The LR2032 are a rechargeable type
with a lower maH rating, and the motherboard recharges those,
even from 0 volts. The LR2032 is more common in laptops.

I'm constantly replacing them here. And so, when a computer is put
back in the junk room, I pull the battery before storing it.

On some PCs, it's a pain to remember all the correct CMOS settings
the next time I use it. But if the CMOS CR2032 drains to zero
anyway, the settings will still be lost. So one way or another,
storage for longer than three years, means a little extra work
getting the BIOS set up properly again.

Paul
Because of what you said I'll have to find another site to host my pics. Photobucket has always bogged down my pc like no other site. I can have a dozen tabs open with no problem, but a single Photobucket window would bring any computer to it's knees.

And to make things worse: https://petapixel.com/2017/07/01/pho...-embedded-web/

They just went from free to $400 to host your photos for a year. Now since you can only download one of your own images at a time and there is a 20 image limit, it seems as though they are either shutting down or drastically changing the business model and this is a final shakedown. "...from hell's heart I stab at thee."

Anyway, I picked up some Energizer CR2032 batteries only to find the computer has started powering on again.

Nevertheless, I still get no beep/s whatsoever when I power on with the memory removed. Not from the motherboard and not from the headphones when plugged into the front or back of the case. I'm assuming the piezo transducer speakers I have will make no difference, correct?

The last thing I can think of is re-seating the CPU. I can't re-seat all the cables until I figure out a way to get the case all the way open. But then I guess checking the main power connector with my Multimeter is all I can do.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
You connect the speaker to the 1x4 row of pins labeled SPKR.
That's where the beeping is supposed to come out.

The Line Out for the stereo speakers you use for multimedia,
doesn't get that beep. There are actually schemes for including
the startup beep into the stereo multimedia speakers, but nobody
who designs motherboards uses that feature (too annoying).

So just the piezo or case speaker beeps, and only if the twisted
pair of wires with the 1x4 on the end, connects to a 1x4 group
of pins (labeled SPKR).

Asus had a scheme, where the Vocal Post chip was tied into
the multimedia audio. The messages were low quality, and you'd
hear "now booting operating system" come through your multimedia
speakers. It would also tell you "RAM Error" and the like. As they
tied common error conditions into a playback audio message from
a pair of chips that cost a dollar or two. One chip was a Flash
that contained recorded audio messages, and you could overwrite that
with your own messages. It would take about 20 minutes to program
the Flash, so I don't think many people bothered with that. Asus
eventually stopped putting that on newer motherboards, but
as these features go, it was certainly better than nothing.
The hardest part was "translating" the messages.

Paul


Well the problem is that this motherboard does not have a 1x4 row of pins labeled SPKR.

Just the orange 2 x 5 header, connected to the output jack, labled F.AUDIO: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...y54gOeakFklYh9
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...ugZCqiR4p5v63_

And a little black object with "WT-1205" stamped on it: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...O4RYOIqK8HuqOB

The only 1 x 4 header is a small one in a little white housing.

There is no where to connect the speakers I have: https://www.amazon.com/JAMECO-VALUEP.../dp/B00R5CFWFO

Here is a simple board diagram: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...XfsvQPtBpgsvci

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


Digikey has a listing for the WT-1205. It's a "2.4KHz tone" buzzer.
Your error codes should beep out of there. This could be why you have
no SPKR pins. They would normally be in the lower right corner
of the motherboard, where the front panel RESET, POWER, and two LED
outputs are located. OEM computers (HP, Dell, Acer) like to use a
piezo, instead of a case speaker, because it's one less thing to
wire up, and time is money in the assembly factory.

https://www.digikey.ca/product-detai...SAAEgKgcvD_BwE

The F.Audio could be the output of the sound chip.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/su...udioheader.jpg

There are five critical pins there, and they go to the
front of the computer, to the two audio jacks. One audio jack
is Headphones, one jack is Microphone.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/su...udioheader.jpg

TRS Port1L Port1R GND (TRS = Tip Ring Sleeve of a 1/8" audio connector)

TRS Port2L Port2R GND

Modern F.audio headers don't need the two blue jumpers.
Back in the AC'97 days, Lineout came from the sound chip,
and would be "looped through" the headphone jack on the front
of the computer. If you plugged in the headphones, it defeated
the speaker LineOut (lime color) on the back of the computer.
With the headphones unplugged, the rear speaker jack would work.
If you didn't have front panel wiring connected to F.audio, you
re-installed the two blue jumpers. The motherboard comes from
the factory with the blue jumpers in place (so the Lineout works
right away).

In the HDAudio era, the sound chip has enough analog outputs,
this kooky stuff is no longer required. The F.audio header has
two jacks, sharing a common ground signal (my TRS diagram above).
There are no longer blue jumpers, and you shouldn't even add blue
jumpers to an HDAudio header.

The HDaudio jacks are even re-taskable. When the sound control
panel asks, you can tell it "this is my microphone" and the
jack goes into microphone mode. That's what re-taskable means.
(That's why my TRS diagram is not labeled with Headphones/Microphone.)
So while a store-bought computer case might label one as Headphones
and one jack as Microphone, they can be made to change roles.
The HDAudio version doesn't need the jumpers, since no signals
are looped through any more, and all the ports have their own
private signal source.

You can tell the various 2x5 headers on the motherboard, both
by their descriptive label. But they're also labeled by
"which pin is missing". You can see in the above Intel diagram,
a certain pin is missing, and that marks it as an F.audio header.
I have a header like that on my HDaudio PCI Express x1 slot
module, and it has the same purpose, to provide signals
to the front panel Headphone and Microphone jacks. I normally
connect to the back of the machine, instead (as the computer
is desk height, and the back is perfectly accessible). I can stand
upright and change audio plugs and everything.

*******

When I click your Google picture links above, I'm getting
a "login box" instead of pictures. This is all part of the
fun of "dialing in" new image servers :-) However, you've given
plenty of text description to work with, so I hope the
above gives some hints. The WT-1205 should have made a noise
when the RAM sticks were removed. It should have beeped
at 2.4KHz (which is kinda high for a beep). I like 440Hz
for a beeper, if they made such a thing.

For the F.audio, you would need to put the blue jumpers
back if your rear audio LineOut wasn't working (i.e. an AC'97
era computer). If the computer is more modern, you don't need
to do anything to that header, or ever worry about it, as your
HDAudio Lineout *always* works. The documentation for your
PC, might not be crystal clear as to what you've got. Only
if you got the PC when it was brand new, it had the blue jumper
plugs on it, might you get a hint it is AC'97 type. Some people
in the past have remembered the blue jumpers, and so I had them
put the jumpers back to make their rear audio work on Lineout.

If you buy a separate PCI audio card, of course all the motherboard
stuff no longer matters.

Oh, and the white 1x4, that's probably the audio from the CD player
goes to that header. Optical drives, some of the newer ones,
have removed audio-out. So there's nothing to connect in that
situation. Instead, there is digital audio extraction, to move
digital samples from a music CD, into the computer, and
that could be a higher quality path than the old audio
cable anyway. You can see the idiots even had more
than one standard for that connector (even if it
was an accident of some sort).

http://www.aesystems.com/cdrom_audio_connectors.html

I don't have the 1x4 white CD audio hooked up on *any*
computer here. Never used it. Nothing to worry about.

Paul


I should have just put in an Ebay link to show the motherboard: https://www..ebay.com/itm/372052435442

So basically I'm back to where I was when I gave up on this computer the first time around. I get no beeps whatsoever, which means there is nothing else to do.

So I guess it's back to my DELL 8300, which is another PC I had previously given up on.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
  #29  
Old December 20th 17, 11:20 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 749
Default No Video from PC

wrote:
On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 5:55:18 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 9:25:37 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 4:58:35 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On Saturday, July 12, 2014 at 7:55:12 AM UTC-4, Flasherly wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 23:55:59 -0400, Michael Black
wrote:

Is that accurate anymore? I don't think my current computer has a speaker
built into it.
Get a little piezo transducer speaker with tiny leads for localized
block mounted. Included on some MBs, hold onto to it when updating;-
should be a purchasable item, couple bucks maybe shipped off Ebay from
Singapore.

Class D amps kits are another relatively cheap one. Wish they induded
those already layered into a MB for the onboard sound chip.
OK. Thanks to my severely limited Dell E310 losing it's audio capability after a bluescreen crash I believe was due to a flaky hard drive connection(thanks to the frequent failures to find the hard drive on previous boot attempts) I decided to dig out the Compact Presario(SR1920NX) that I gave up on almost 3-1/2 years ago after not getting any sound from the audio beep test. No sound from the motherboard F.Audio header connected to the case output jack, not via a sound card, and not from the little black barrel shaped object that says WT-1205(BUZZ1 in the manual diagram).

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psuddiaen5.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psf9qwxsyu.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psbamkrbgy.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...pss1p6mrig.jpg

So, two days ago I hooked this PC back up and turned on the power only to get nothing... Except the green light on the power supply that comes on when you plug in the AC cord. So that was short lived.

Yesterday, before writing the PC off I tried again... And it came on three consecutive times. Both the power supply and the CPU fans spun up with no problem. So I'm thinking that the previous day's failure to power on was due a power supply issue. Perhaps the connection to the motherboard.

Anyway, I hit another roadblock. I cannot move the drive cage out of the way to get to the main power connector so I can test it with my DMM. The reason is because even though the online instruction manual I found shows three tabs are to be pressed to swing open the front panel, on my PC there is only a single tab at the top.

https://mans.io/files/viewer/500768/6#navigate_bar
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...psjuhpaghq.jpg

So I can loosen the top left corner of the front of the PC, but nothing else.

Today I figured I'd turn on the PC only to find it is back to not working again. :-(

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
That Photobucket has turned into an advertising
trash heap! I had to kill the browser from Task Manager,
and the PC speaker was still beeping 30 seconds later.
I cleaned out the browser, before using it again.

*******

All I can suggest to you, for the PC that doesn't start,
is to check the CR2032 CMOS battery and see if it's dropped
to zero volts.

This doesn't happen on all computers. Some seem to run a
connection from the battery (as VBAT) to the SuperI/O. I've
never been able to trace down why they might want to do that.
It almost seems like the voltage is treated as a logic level,
and when the voltage gets low enough, it disables the PS_ON signal
or something.

With a multimeter, you connect the black lead to chassis ground
(a screw on an I/O connector will do). The red lead you touch
to the top (+) of the battery. A good battery reads 3.0V or higher.
The practical end of battery life, is around 2.3V. And it takes
about three weeks to drop from 2.3V down to nothing. That gives some
idea how short the "shoulder" of the battery discharge curve is.

If you put a computer in storage, with the battery in place,
the RTC draws 10uA from the battery, and it takes about three
years to drain the battery. Then, you buy another battery.

Always check the battery type before replacing it. CR2032
are not rechargeable. The LR2032 are a rechargeable type
with a lower maH rating, and the motherboard recharges those,
even from 0 volts. The LR2032 is more common in laptops.

I'm constantly replacing them here. And so, when a computer is put
back in the junk room, I pull the battery before storing it.

On some PCs, it's a pain to remember all the correct CMOS settings
the next time I use it. But if the CMOS CR2032 drains to zero
anyway, the settings will still be lost. So one way or another,
storage for longer than three years, means a little extra work
getting the BIOS set up properly again.

Paul
Because of what you said I'll have to find another site to host my pics. Photobucket has always bogged down my pc like no other site. I can have a dozen tabs open with no problem, but a single Photobucket window would bring any computer to it's knees.

And to make things worse: https://petapixel.com/2017/07/01/pho...-embedded-web/

They just went from free to $400 to host your photos for a year. Now since you can only download one of your own images at a time and there is a 20 image limit, it seems as though they are either shutting down or drastically changing the business model and this is a final shakedown. "...from hell's heart I stab at thee."

Anyway, I picked up some Energizer CR2032 batteries only to find the computer has started powering on again.

Nevertheless, I still get no beep/s whatsoever when I power on with the memory removed. Not from the motherboard and not from the headphones when plugged into the front or back of the case. I'm assuming the piezo transducer speakers I have will make no difference, correct?

The last thing I can think of is re-seating the CPU. I can't re-seat all the cables until I figure out a way to get the case all the way open. But then I guess checking the main power connector with my Multimeter is all I can do.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
You connect the speaker to the 1x4 row of pins labeled SPKR.
That's where the beeping is supposed to come out.

The Line Out for the stereo speakers you use for multimedia,
doesn't get that beep. There are actually schemes for including
the startup beep into the stereo multimedia speakers, but nobody
who designs motherboards uses that feature (too annoying).

So just the piezo or case speaker beeps, and only if the twisted
pair of wires with the 1x4 on the end, connects to a 1x4 group
of pins (labeled SPKR).

Asus had a scheme, where the Vocal Post chip was tied into
the multimedia audio. The messages were low quality, and you'd
hear "now booting operating system" come through your multimedia
speakers. It would also tell you "RAM Error" and the like. As they
tied common error conditions into a playback audio message from
a pair of chips that cost a dollar or two. One chip was a Flash
that contained recorded audio messages, and you could overwrite that
with your own messages. It would take about 20 minutes to program
the Flash, so I don't think many people bothered with that. Asus
eventually stopped putting that on newer motherboards, but
as these features go, it was certainly better than nothing.
The hardest part was "translating" the messages.

Paul
Well the problem is that this motherboard does not have a 1x4 row of pins labeled SPKR.

Just the orange 2 x 5 header, connected to the output jack, labled F.AUDIO: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...y54gOeakFklYh9
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...ugZCqiR4p5v63_

And a little black object with "WT-1205" stamped on it: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...O4RYOIqK8HuqOB

The only 1 x 4 header is a small one in a little white housing.

There is no where to connect the speakers I have: https://www.amazon.com/JAMECO-VALUEP.../dp/B00R5CFWFO

Here is a simple board diagram: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...XfsvQPtBpgsvci

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Digikey has a listing for the WT-1205. It's a "2.4KHz tone" buzzer.
Your error codes should beep out of there. This could be why you have
no SPKR pins. They would normally be in the lower right corner
of the motherboard, where the front panel RESET, POWER, and two LED
outputs are located. OEM computers (HP, Dell, Acer) like to use a
piezo, instead of a case speaker, because it's one less thing to
wire up, and time is money in the assembly factory.

https://www.digikey.ca/product-detai...SAAEgKgcvD_BwE

The F.Audio could be the output of the sound chip.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/su...udioheader.jpg

There are five critical pins there, and they go to the
front of the computer, to the two audio jacks. One audio jack
is Headphones, one jack is Microphone.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/su...udioheader.jpg

TRS Port1L Port1R GND (TRS = Tip Ring Sleeve of a 1/8" audio connector)

TRS Port2L Port2R GND

Modern F.audio headers don't need the two blue jumpers.
Back in the AC'97 days, Lineout came from the sound chip,
and would be "looped through" the headphone jack on the front
of the computer. If you plugged in the headphones, it defeated
the speaker LineOut (lime color) on the back of the computer.
With the headphones unplugged, the rear speaker jack would work.
If you didn't have front panel wiring connected to F.audio, you
re-installed the two blue jumpers. The motherboard comes from
the factory with the blue jumpers in place (so the Lineout works
right away).

In the HDAudio era, the sound chip has enough analog outputs,
this kooky stuff is no longer required. The F.audio header has
two jacks, sharing a common ground signal (my TRS diagram above).
There are no longer blue jumpers, and you shouldn't even add blue
jumpers to an HDAudio header.

The HDaudio jacks are even re-taskable. When the sound control
panel asks, you can tell it "this is my microphone" and the
jack goes into microphone mode. That's what re-taskable means.
(That's why my TRS diagram is not labeled with Headphones/Microphone.)
So while a store-bought computer case might label one as Headphones
and one jack as Microphone, they can be made to change roles.
The HDAudio version doesn't need the jumpers, since no signals
are looped through any more, and all the ports have their own
private signal source.

You can tell the various 2x5 headers on the motherboard, both
by their descriptive label. But they're also labeled by
"which pin is missing". You can see in the above Intel diagram,
a certain pin is missing, and that marks it as an F.audio header.
I have a header like that on my HDaudio PCI Express x1 slot
module, and it has the same purpose, to provide signals
to the front panel Headphone and Microphone jacks. I normally
connect to the back of the machine, instead (as the computer
is desk height, and the back is perfectly accessible). I can stand
upright and change audio plugs and everything.

*******

When I click your Google picture links above, I'm getting
a "login box" instead of pictures. This is all part of the
fun of "dialing in" new image servers :-) However, you've given
plenty of text description to work with, so I hope the
above gives some hints. The WT-1205 should have made a noise
when the RAM sticks were removed. It should have beeped
at 2.4KHz (which is kinda high for a beep). I like 440Hz
for a beeper, if they made such a thing.

For the F.audio, you would need to put the blue jumpers
back if your rear audio LineOut wasn't working (i.e. an AC'97
era computer). If the computer is more modern, you don't need
to do anything to that header, or ever worry about it, as your
HDAudio Lineout *always* works. The documentation for your
PC, might not be crystal clear as to what you've got. Only
if you got the PC when it was brand new, it had the blue jumper
plugs on it, might you get a hint it is AC'97 type. Some people
in the past have remembered the blue jumpers, and so I had them
put the jumpers back to make their rear audio work on Lineout.

If you buy a separate PCI audio card, of course all the motherboard
stuff no longer matters.

Oh, and the white 1x4, that's probably the audio from the CD player
goes to that header. Optical drives, some of the newer ones,
have removed audio-out. So there's nothing to connect in that
situation. Instead, there is digital audio extraction, to move
digital samples from a music CD, into the computer, and
that could be a higher quality path than the old audio
cable anyway. You can see the idiots even had more
than one standard for that connector (even if it
was an accident of some sort).

http://www.aesystems.com/cdrom_audio_connectors.html

I don't have the 1x4 white CD audio hooked up on *any*
computer here. Never used it. Nothing to worry about.

Paul


I should have just put in an Ebay link to show the motherboard:

A8N-LA Rev2.0
https://www.ebay.com/itm/372052435442

So basically I'm back to where I was when I gave up on this computer the first time around. I get no beeps whatsoever, which means there is nothing else to do.

So I guess it's back to my DELL 8300, which is another PC I had previously given up on.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


https://support.hp.com/doc-images/753/c00648511.jpg

BUZZ1 is on the upper right, just below the rectangular SuperIO chip.

Below that is a 34-pin floppy connector.

And below that is a BIOS flash chip. The "triangle" on
the socket, points to pin 1 on the chip.

*******

To beep, the computer needs:

1) ATX power connected to 24 pin power. You can use a 20 pin ATX
supply if you want, as long as pin 1 goes to pin 1, leaving
four motherboard contacts unused.

2) The CPU needs power via the ATX 2x2 connector. That's on the
upper left, inset a bit from the corner. Two pins are +12V and
two pins are Ground.

3) CPU inserted in socket.
Memory not necessary.
HDD not necessary.
Keyboard not necessary.
Video card not necessary.

4) BIOS chip present and properly programmed. If the BIOS
chip is rotated in the socket, two of the pins will glow
red hot and it will be ruined. A couple of BIOS chips have
been ruined by some sort of airport XRay machine (erased
as near as I could determine).

5) You have BUZZ1, so no worries about having a speaker.

Now, to get it to beep, the motherboard has some
required operating conditions:

1) Push power button. Fans start to spin. If the fans
don't spin, there is no +12V and no way the CPU can run.

2) Reset button. If you pound and smash the reset button, the
contact stays jammed in the "ON" state. This prevents POST
and no beeps are gonna come out. To stop this from happening,
unplug the reset button twisted pair from the PANEL header.

The same can happen to the power button, if it jams in the
ON position, you might not get proper operation. You can unplug
the Power twisted pair too, and use a screwdriver tip to "momentarily"
close the two power contacts.

3) ATX supply must give Power_Good. When the fans start to
spin, that is not the full story. The ATX supply sends a
Power_Good signal over the main ATX cable, and that says all
rails are at full voltage. If Power_Good is deasserted, the
fans can run OK, but the CPU won't start. Power_Good, in effect,
is a term in the RESET equation, and it has the same effect
as a crushed Reset button in (2).

4) Once all the reset factors are accounted for, and
the reset signal finally rises, the CPU starts reading
flash data at a standard address, and it starts POST.
If it finds no memory, the register-based code can still
beep the speaker.

The board uses a 6150LE with internal graphics available.
It can still beep the "no video card" pattern, if attempts
to run the Northbridge video don't work out.

So that gives you a quick rundown of "why it don't beep" :-)
There are some external factors that can play a part.
It's not just a loss of power or something. The missing
Power_Good doesn't happen all that often, but they
continue to include that signal in the Reset tree of logic.

HTH,
Paul
 




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