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Disk replacement for HPz210 small form factor



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 4th 17, 03:36 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
t
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default Disk replacement for HPz210 small form factor

We got two HPZ210 small form factor
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...053190/manuals
computers from another area, but they don't have a hard disk as well as
the data and power cables which connect to them.

1. Can an SSD like
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sandisk...?skuId=5394603
work for the HPz210 computers if I get the following SATA and power cables

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St.../1896135.aspx?

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St...r/2886844.aspx

2. Or, would I need any other cables also?

Any advice would be appreciated.

  #2  
Old December 4th 17, 08:41 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 536
Default Disk replacement for HPz210 small form factor

t wrote:
We got two HPZ210 small form factor
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...053190/manuals
computers from another area, but they don't have a hard disk as well as
the data and power cables which connect to them.

1. Can an SSD like
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sandisk...?skuId=5394603
work for the HPz210 computers if I get the following SATA and power cables

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St.../1896135.aspx?


https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St...r/2886844.aspx


2. Or, would I need any other cables also?

Any advice would be appreciated.


1 internal 3.5-inch bay, and 1 shared internal/external 3.5-inch bay.
1 external 5.25-inch bay.

The manual, in the diagrams (this is a PDF file),

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02784417

makes it look like the captive power supply cables
are Molex power. And yet the port config is 2xSATA II
and 2xSATA III. You'd think they would have put
SATA 15 pin power on it. I don't know if the diagrams
are intentionally trying to be obtuse or what's going on.

You'd purchase a Molex to SATA power, if what I'm
seeing in the manual is correct. If you arrive on
site and the captive cable is actually SATA 15p,
then you wouldn't need your adapter. So the Y cable
you propose to buy, is probably a good thing to get.

The manual shows the drive bay as "rotating into place",
with a right-angle SATA 7p data on one end, and a
straight connector SATA 7p data on the other end.

Figure 10-9 shows the proposed cable routing. If you
buy a long cable, with regular SATA connectors on each
end, they bend the cable in half. However, it also
looks like, if you dropped the cage down to a lower
angle, a shorter cable can fit. But the question
remains, how will the bend radius be maintained ?
You don't want to pinch SATA cables and leave a
blemish in the plastic, as it can cause a high
error rate.

Your Molex to dual SATA 15p power cable is probably
a safe bet to carry in your kit bag.

The other cable, microSATA to SATA, that doesn't make
any sense. MicroSATA is a 1.8" SSD standard. Both
2.5" HDD and SSD and 3.5" HDD and ODD use regular sized
SATA 7p. And then it's a judgment call, whether you
attempt to use a long cable and route it through
their idea of a strain relief. Or you route
the shorter cable as you see fit. I think my computer
store stocks at least three lengths of SATA cable,
so I'd have choices, and the longest one definitely
wouldn't work for this project, as there'd be too
much slack left over.

But you know it's a regular SATA right angle to
SATA straight cable, and if you carry several
sample lengths in your kit bag, you can probably
pick one to fit.

Your proposed SSD drive purchase, is TLC flash with
SLC write cache. That means the data is written twice,
for small writes. A portion of the TLC, the voltage
levels are interpreted as if they were SLC, so the
entire flash array is basically TLC. When the SLC
write cache (intended for speed), is full on a
sustained write sequence, the drive write speed
will drop as it starts writing directly in one
step to the TLC cells. I'm guessing your purchase
is based on price, and a three year warranty.

https://www.cnet.com/products/sandis...240gg26/specs/

The Sandisk page itself, gave next to nothing for specs.
I might as well have been buying toilet paper or
melons :-)

You'll need a tray adapter for an SSD. The internal
drive bay may be 3.5" for the lower one. The manual
shows some kind of crazy looking adapter for
3.5" to 2.5" drives. Some kind of regular 3.5" to 2.5"
tray adapter with screw holes in places that mate with
the HP tray design, would probably suffice. If you're
using loose cables to cable up, the thickness of the
drive shouldn't matter. And it's just a matter
of securing it. While you could use tie-wraps or
duct tape, that isn't very professional :-)

Paul
  #3  
Old December 4th 17, 04:26 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
John McGaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 641
Default Disk replacement for HPz210 small form factor

On 12/3/2017 9:36 PM, t wrote:
We got two HPZ210 small form factor
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...053190/manuals
computers from another area, but they don't have a hard disk as well as the
data and power cables which connect to them.

1. Can an SSD like
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sandisk...?skuId=5394603
work for the HPz210 computers if I get the following SATA and power cables

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St.../1896135.aspx?


https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St...r/2886844.aspx


2. Or, would I need any other cables also?

Any advice would be appreciated.


The drive should work fine since it is a bog standard SATA interface -- no
'micro' adapter necessary, just a suitable high-quality SATA cable rated
for 6gb/s. Both the motherboard and the proposed drive are rated for that
speed. As for the power, it seems highly unlikely that there isn't already
a SATA power connector in place but the 'manual' is vague to say the least.
Have you looked? As Paul wrote, having a converter from Molex to SATA power
won't hurt you since they are cheap but there is no use in buying something
you'll likely never need (this written by someone who has thrown out
literally bushels of weird old obsolete cables and adapters over the years).

As for mounting the drive, there are physical adapters to fit the 2.5"
drives into 3.5" spaces but I've had as much success using a bit of
double-stick foam tape -- SSD drives weigh next to nothing and are not
shock-sensitive.
  #4  
Old December 4th 17, 07:07 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 536
Default Disk replacement for HPz210 small form factor

John McGaw wrote:
On 12/3/2017 9:36 PM, t wrote:
We got two HPZ210 small form factor
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...053190/manuals
computers from another area, but they don't have a hard disk as well
as the data and power cables which connect to them.

1. Can an SSD like
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sandisk...?skuId=5394603
work for the HPz210 computers if I get the following SATA and power
cables

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St.../1896135.aspx?


https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St...r/2886844.aspx


2. Or, would I need any other cables also?

Any advice would be appreciated.


The drive should work fine since it is a bog standard SATA interface --
no 'micro' adapter necessary, just a suitable high-quality SATA cable
rated for 6gb/s. Both the motherboard and the proposed drive are rated
for that speed. As for the power, it seems highly unlikely that there
isn't already a SATA power connector in place but the 'manual' is vague
to say the least. Have you looked? As Paul wrote, having a converter
from Molex to SATA power won't hurt you since they are cheap but there
is no use in buying something you'll likely never need (this written by
someone who has thrown out literally bushels of weird old obsolete
cables and adapters over the years).

As for mounting the drive, there are physical adapters to fit the 2.5"
drives into 3.5" spaces but I've had as much success using a bit of
double-stick foam tape -- SSD drives weigh next to nothing and are not
shock-sensitive.


I've nearly worn out a couple SATA 15p on the Test Machine,
and I am actually using the Y cable with Molex to dual SATA,
to replace it.

So I recommend actually stocking a couple for your
computer room. I have drives on trays, and the drives
are swapped on a daily basis for one experiment
or another. When you wear out a 15p on the PSU,
you can start using a Y to replace it.

Paul
  #5  
Old December 4th 17, 08:56 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
John McGaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 641
Default Disk replacement for HPz210 small form factor

On 12/4/2017 1:07 PM, Paul wrote:
John McGaw wrote:
On 12/3/2017 9:36 PM, t wrote:
We got two HPZ210 small form factor
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...053190/manuals
computers from another area, but they don't have a hard disk as well as
the data and power cables which connect to them.

1. Can an SSD like
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sandisk...?skuId=5394603
work for the HPz210 computers if I get the following SATA and power cables

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St.../1896135.aspx?


https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St...r/2886844.aspx


2. Or, would I need any other cables also?

Any advice would be appreciated.


The drive should work fine since it is a bog standard SATA interface --
no 'micro' adapter necessary, just a suitable high-quality SATA cable
rated for 6gb/s. Both the motherboard and the proposed drive are rated
for that speed. As for the power, it seems highly unlikely that there
isn't already a SATA power connector in place but the 'manual' is vague
to say the least. Have you looked? As Paul wrote, having a converter from
Molex to SATA power won't hurt you since they are cheap but there is no
use in buying something you'll likely never need (this written by someone
who has thrown out literally bushels of weird old obsolete cables and
adapters over the years).

As for mounting the drive, there are physical adapters to fit the 2.5"
drives into 3.5" spaces but I've had as much success using a bit of
double-stick foam tape -- SSD drives weigh next to nothing and are not
shock-sensitive.


I've nearly worn out a couple SATA 15p on the Test Machine,
and I am actually using the Y cable with Molex to dual SATA,
to replace it.

So I recommend actually stocking a couple for your
computer room. I have drives on trays, and the drives
are swapped on a daily basis for one experiment
or another. When you wear out a 15p on the PSU,
you can start using a Y to replace it.

** Paul


For a machine which sees a _lot_ of changes, sure, why not. Face it though
-- your naive average user installing such a drive may figure out how to do
it one time and, once (s)he gets it working even one replacement is
unlikely before the machine is salvaged. I've had 'test' machines too over
decades but never got to the point of wearing out any connectors that I can
recall. The last one was used for a couple of years right up to the time
when some caps and an inductor came to a smoky end in an onboard regulator
finally relegating that MB to the great junkbox in the sky.
  #6  
Old December 5th 17, 12:09 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 536
Default Disk replacement for HPz210 small form factor

John McGaw wrote:
On 12/4/2017 1:07 PM, Paul wrote:
John McGaw wrote:
On 12/3/2017 9:36 PM, t wrote:
We got two HPZ210 small form factor
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...053190/manuals
computers from another area, but they don't have a hard disk as well
as the data and power cables which connect to them.

1. Can an SSD like
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sandisk...?skuId=5394603
work for the HPz210 computers if I get the following SATA and power
cables

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St.../1896135.aspx?


https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St...r/2886844.aspx


2. Or, would I need any other cables also?

Any advice would be appreciated.


The drive should work fine since it is a bog standard SATA interface
-- no 'micro' adapter necessary, just a suitable high-quality SATA
cable rated for 6gb/s. Both the motherboard and the proposed drive
are rated for that speed. As for the power, it seems highly unlikely
that there isn't already a SATA power connector in place but the
'manual' is vague to say the least. Have you looked? As Paul wrote,
having a converter from Molex to SATA power won't hurt you since they
are cheap but there is no use in buying something you'll likely never
need (this written by someone who has thrown out literally bushels of
weird old obsolete cables and adapters over the years).

As for mounting the drive, there are physical adapters to fit the
2.5" drives into 3.5" spaces but I've had as much success using a bit
of double-stick foam tape -- SSD drives weigh next to nothing and are
not shock-sensitive.


I've nearly worn out a couple SATA 15p on the Test Machine,
and I am actually using the Y cable with Molex to dual SATA,
to replace it.

So I recommend actually stocking a couple for your
computer room. I have drives on trays, and the drives
are swapped on a daily basis for one experiment
or another. When you wear out a 15p on the PSU,
you can start using a Y to replace it.

Paul


For a machine which sees a _lot_ of changes, sure, why not. Face it
though -- your naive average user installing such a drive may figure out
how to do it one time and, once (s)he gets it working even one
replacement is unlikely before the machine is salvaged. I've had 'test'
machines too over decades but never got to the point of wearing out any
connectors that I can recall. The last one was used for a couple of
years right up to the time when some caps and an inductor came to a
smoky end in an onboard regulator finally relegating that MB to the
great junkbox in the sky.


The SATA connector that slides on to the back of the
drive, is only rated for 50 insertions. They seem to be
good for more cycles than that.

In the ESATA case, the rating is 5000 cycles, and it seems
either having a metal shell, or having a rigid setup
(like the backplane connector), does wonders for the
rating.

So mine is one of the 50 cycle things, wearing out.

On one connector, I have a bad connection between one
of the power wire and the connector.

On a second connector, it's just getting loose, as if
some material has worn off.

Paul
  #7  
Old December 5th 17, 06:11 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
t
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default Disk replacement for HPz210 small form factor

On 12/4/2017 2:41 AM, Paul wrote:
t wrote:
We got two HPZ210 small form factor
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...053190/manuals
computers from another area, but they don't have a hard disk as well
as the data and power cables which connect to them.

1. Can an SSD like
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sandisk...?skuId=5394603
work for the HPz210 computers if I get the following SATA and power
cables

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St.../1896135.aspx?


https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St...r/2886844.aspx


2. Or, would I need any other cables also?

Any advice would be appreciated.


Thanks Paul,

I appreciate the detailed response.




1 internal 3.5-inch bay, and 1 shared internal/external 3.5-inch bay.
1 external 5.25-inch bay.

The manual, in the diagrams (this is a PDF file),

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c02784417

makes it look like the captive power supply cables
are Molex power. And yet the port config is 2xSATA II
and 2xSATA III. You'd think they would have put
SATA 15 pin power on it. I don't know if the diagrams
are intentionally trying to be obtuse or what's going on.

You'd purchase a Molex to SATA power, if what I'm
seeing in the manual is correct. If you arrive on
site and the captive cable is actually SATA 15p,
then you wouldn't need your adapter. So the Y cable
you propose to buy, is probably a good thing to get.

The manual shows the drive bay as "rotating into place",
with a right-angle SATA 7p data on one end, and a
straight connector SATA 7p data on the other end.

Figure 10-9 shows the proposed cable routing. If you
buy a long cable, with regular SATA connectors on each
end, they bend the cable in half. However, it also
looks like, if you dropped the cage down to a lower
angle, a shorter cable can fit. But the question
remains, how will the bend radius be maintained ?
You don't want to pinch SATA cables and leave a
blemish in the plastic, as it can cause a high
error rate.

Your Molex to dual SATA 15p power cable is probably
a safe bet to carry in your kit bag.

The other cable, microSATA to SATA, that doesn't make
any sense. MicroSATA is a 1.8" SSD standard. Both
2.5" HDD and SSD and 3.5" HDD and ODD use regular sized
SATA 7p. And then it's a judgment call, whether you
attempt to use a long cable and route it through
their idea of a strain relief. Or you route
the shorter cable as you see fit. I think my computer
store stocks at least three lengths of SATA cable,
so I'd have choices, and the longest one definitely
wouldn't work for this project, as there'd be too
much slack left over.

But you know it's a regular SATA right angle to
SATA straight cable, and if you carry several
sample lengths in your kit bag, you can probably
pick one to fit.


Would getting this
https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-16-.../dp/B005E2XRNG work
for data and power cable?

Your proposed SSD drive purchase, is TLC flash with
SLC write cache. That means the data is written twice,
for small writes. A portion of the TLC, the voltage
levels are interpreted as if they were SLC, so the
entire flash array is basically TLC. When the SLC
write cache (intended for speed), is full on a
sustained write sequence, the drive write speed
will drop as it starts writing directly in one
step to the TLC cells. I'm guessing your purchase
is based on price, and a three year warranty.

https://www.cnet.com/products/sandis...240gg26/specs/


The Sandisk page itself, gave next to nothing for specs.
I might as well have been buying toilet paper or
melons :-)

You'll need a tray adapter for an SSD. The internal
drive bay may be 3.5" for the lower one. The manual
shows some kind of crazy looking adapter for
3.5" to 2.5" drives. Some kind of regular 3.5" to 2.5"
tray adapter with screw holes in places that mate with
the HP tray design, would probably suffice. If you're
using loose cables to cable up, the thickness of the
drive shouldn't matter. And it's just a matter
of securing it. While you could use tie-wraps or
duct tape, that isn't very professional :-)

Paul


Your responses to this newsgroup are appreciated.
  #8  
Old December 5th 17, 06:12 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
t
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default Disk replacement for HPz210 small form factor

On 12/4/2017 10:26 AM, John McGaw wrote:
On 12/3/2017 9:36 PM, t wrote:
We got two HPZ210 small form factor
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...053190/manuals
computers from another area, but they don't have a hard disk as well
as the data and power cables which connect to them.

1. Can an SSD like
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sandisk...?skuId=5394603
work for the HPz210 computers if I get the following SATA and power
cables

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St.../1896135.aspx?


https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St...r/2886844.aspx


2. Or, would I need any other cables also?

Any advice would be appreciated.


The drive should work fine since it is a bog standard SATA interface --
no 'micro' adapter necessary, just a suitable high-quality SATA cable
rated for 6gb/s. Both the motherboard and the proposed drive are rated
for that speed. As for the power, it seems highly unlikely that there
isn't already a SATA power connector in place but the 'manual' is vague
to say the least. Have you looked? As Paul wrote, having a converter
from Molex to SATA power won't hurt you since they are cheap but there
is no use in buying something you'll likely never need (this written by
someone who has thrown out literally bushels of weird old obsolete
cables and adapters over the years).


Thanks John,

If something like this
https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-16-.../dp/B005E2XRNG works
I can get it

As for mounting the drive, there are physical adapters to fit the 2.5"
drives into 3.5" spaces but I've had as much success using a bit of
double-stick foam tape -- SSD drives weigh next to nothing and are not
shock-sensitive.


I appreciate your advice.
  #9  
Old December 5th 17, 04:36 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
John McGaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 641
Default Disk replacement for HPz210 small form factor

On 12/5/2017 12:12 AM, t wrote:
On 12/4/2017 10:26 AM, John McGaw wrote:
On 12/3/2017 9:36 PM, t wrote:
We got two HPZ210 small form factor
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product...053190/manuals

computers from another area, but they don't have a hard disk as well
as the data and power cables which connect to them.

1. Can an SSD like
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sandisk...?skuId=5394603

work for the HPz210 computers if I get the following SATA and power
cables

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St.../1896135.aspx?



https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/St...r/2886844.aspx



2. Or, would I need any other cables also?

Any advice would be appreciated.


The drive should work fine since it is a bog standard SATA interface --
no 'micro' adapter necessary, just a suitable high-quality SATA cable
rated for 6gb/s. Both the motherboard and the proposed drive are rated
for that speed. As for the power, it seems highly unlikely that there
isn't already a SATA power connector in place but the 'manual' is vague
to say the least. Have you looked? As Paul wrote, having a converter
from Molex to SATA power won't hurt you since they are cheap but there
is no use in buying something you'll likely never need (this written by
someone who has thrown out literally bushels of weird old obsolete
cables and adapters over the years).


Thanks John,

If something like this
https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-16-.../dp/B005E2XRNG
works I can get it

As for mounting the drive, there are physical adapters to fit the 2.5"
drives into 3.5" spaces but I've had as much success using a bit of
double-stick foam tape -- SSD drives weigh next to nothing and are not
shock-sensitive.


I appreciate your advice.

The cable you linked is for a 'slim-line' drive. The SSD you mentioned
first is a standard drive. The two are not necessarily compatible and are
meant for entirely different purposes. What you need is a standard
full-size SATA III cable long enough to reach from the motherboard
connector to the drive, wherever you mean to install it. As for power, I
still think that your computer probably has the appropriate 15-pin SATA
power connector on the power supply harness. Have you looked to see? If
your computer doesn't have the connector then you will need an adapter to
go from an old-school AMP/Molex 4-pin to a standard SATA 15-pin in addition
to the SATA data cable.

Since you keep referencing Amazon, try going there and searching for 'SATA
III cable'. You will get a couple of pages full of suitable candidates.
You'll need to figure out if you need straight or right-angle versions
depending on how you will mounting the drive. There are even some power
adapters showing up in the search.
 




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