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SSD and sleep mode?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 11th 18, 11:36 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Mike[_31_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default SSD and sleep mode?


I got this email today claiming that sleep mode is hard on a SSD.
I could understand that hibernate is hard on a SSD, but sleep mode?
My system sleeps maybe a dozen times a day. It's asleep 90% of the time.
Save the planet and all...

Is there any truth to this? Or is it just a scare tactic to
get me to pay for a free tool?

__________________________________________________ _____________


Today the new version SSD Fresh 2019 is released. Besides a revised
program interface and several improvements it also contains a great new
feature.

The new function is called "disable sleep mode" and lets your SSD live
much longer. Windows writes the contents of the working memory to the
hard disk each time you switch to sleep mode and back again as soon as
the PC wakes up. Between 2 and 8 gigabytes of unnecessary data are
written to the hard disk per process! Since SSD hard disks are very fast
anyway, this process is not necessary, but it shortens the life span of
the hard disk enormously.
  #2  
Old October 12th 18, 12:04 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,286
Default SSD and sleep mode?

Mike wrote:

I got this email today claiming that sleep mode is hard on a SSD.
I could understand that hibernate is hard on a SSD, but sleep mode?
My system sleeps maybe a dozen times a day. It's asleep 90% of the time.
Save the planet and all...

Is there any truth to this? Or is it just a scare tactic to
get me to pay for a free tool?

__________________________________________________ _____________

Today the new version SSD Fresh 2019 is released. Besides a revised
program interface and several improvements it also contains a great new
feature.

The new function is called "disable sleep mode" and lets your SSD live
much longer. Windows writes the contents of the working memory to the
hard disk each time you switch to sleep mode and back again as soon as
the PC wakes up. Between 2 and 8 gigabytes of unnecessary data are
written to the hard disk per process! Since SSD hard disks are very fast
anyway, this process is not necessary, but it shortens the life span of
the hard disk enormously.


Depends. Are you using *hyrid* sleep mode or just plain sleep mode?
Hybrid mode using BOTH hibernate and sleep modes. Hibernate mode writes
the system RAM to the hiberfil.sys file. With hybrid mode, your
computer can sleep but can recover if there is a power loss. It's
really meant just for mobile computers (e.g., laptops) in case the main
battery goes dead instead of you doing a proper shutdown.

You don't need any 3rd party software to configure your computer to NOT
use either hibernate or hybrid modes. Go visit your Power Options.

There are a lot of tweaks you can make to the OS without ever resorting
to 3rd party utilities. SSD Fresh 2019 costs $10. It's junkware.
  #3  
Old October 12th 18, 12:15 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Mike[_31_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default SSD and sleep mode?

On 10/11/2018 4:04 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
Mike wrote:

I got this email today claiming that sleep mode is hard on a SSD.
I could understand that hibernate is hard on a SSD, but sleep mode?
My system sleeps maybe a dozen times a day. It's asleep 90% of the time.
Save the planet and all...

Is there any truth to this? Or is it just a scare tactic to
get me to pay for a free tool?

__________________________________________________ _____________

Today the new version SSD Fresh 2019 is released. Besides a revised
program interface and several improvements it also contains a great new
feature.

The new function is called "disable sleep mode" and lets your SSD live
much longer. Windows writes the contents of the working memory to the
hard disk each time you switch to sleep mode and back again as soon as
the PC wakes up. Between 2 and 8 gigabytes of unnecessary data are
written to the hard disk per process! Since SSD hard disks are very fast
anyway, this process is not necessary, but it shortens the life span of
the hard disk enormously.


Depends. Are you using *hyrid* sleep mode or just plain sleep mode?
Hybrid mode using BOTH hibernate and sleep modes. Hibernate mode writes
the system RAM to the hiberfil.sys file. With hybrid mode, your
computer can sleep but can recover if there is a power loss. It's
really meant just for mobile computers (e.g., laptops) in case the main
battery goes dead instead of you doing a proper shutdown.


powercfg -h off
I have no hiberfil.sys

You don't need any 3rd party software to configure your computer to NOT
use either hibernate or hybrid modes. Go visit your Power Options.

There are a lot of tweaks you can make to the OS without ever resorting
to 3rd party utilities. SSD Fresh 2019 costs $10. It's junkware.

I downloaded the free SSD fresh because it put a lot of the configuration
info in one place with a few clicks.

My memory is nonexistent, so I need GUI guides to help me remember what
I'm doin'.
Got any better free ideas on what to configure for optimum SSD life beyond
what's shown in SSD Fresh?

  #4  
Old October 12th 18, 12:28 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,286
Default SSD and sleep mode?

Mike wrote:

Got any better free ideas on what to configure for optimum SSD life beyond
what's shown in SSD Fresh?


You still need a paging file, even if only a small one. If you have an
internal HDD, split the pagefile across the SSD and HDD with the
majority on the HDD.
  #5  
Old October 12th 18, 01:13 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,286
Default SSD and sleep mode?

VanguardLH wrote:

Mike wrote:

Got any better free ideas on what to configure for optimum SSD life beyond
what's shown in SSD Fresh?


You still need a paging file, even if only a small one. If you have an
internal HDD, split the pagefile across the SSD and HDD with the
majority on the HDD.


Also, you will hear lots of arguments against defragging your SSD.
However, defrag.exe in Windows will recognize an SSD but still optimize
it. There's something about file systems that users never consider as a
consequence of fragmentation: an increase in the metadata stored in the
file system as fragmentation increases for a file. Eventually a file
can become so fragmented that the file system can no longer keep track
of its metadata which results in errors when you try to write or extend
a file.

http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs-system-files.htm
https://www.hanselman.com/blog/TheRe...YourSS D.aspx

Unless someone chimes in declaring there is a version of NTFS that
accomodates wear-levelling in SSDs where every write is to a different
block of memory and somehow can either track more metadata per
fragmented file or eliminate fragmentation without incurring whole-file
writes versus delta writes then fragmentions of SSDs with NTFS can
result in too much to track per file. However, I have not found what is
NTFS' limit on metadata per file or performance impact on SSDs on
writing more metadata for a highly fragmented file. In any case,
metadata occupies drive space (1024 bytes in the MFT per fragment).

Only if Analyze to show the whole fragmentation value for a drive is
zero does it mean no file is fragmented. If anything other than zero,
it doesn't tell you which files have the highest number of fragments.
If analyze says fragmentation is other than zero, you really don't know
if any file has too many fragments by itself. Defrag will retrim an SSD
and that's a good thing. For a server or heavily used workstation,
trims can accrue and get dumped; however, there is so much idle time on
an end-user PC that a queued trim will get executed (by Windows or by
garbage-collection logic in the SSD).

If you check, and what I found in Windows 7 with an SSD, is that Windows
still runs its defag.exe against ALL drives, including SSDs. You'll
find an event in Task Scheduler for "defrag.exe /c". Alternatively, you
can run Disk Defragmenter (GUI version) and click on Configure Schedule
to either disable all scheduled defrag events or modifying on which
drives it gets exercised. It's up to you whether or not to leave
enabled or disabled the optimize on your SSD to reduce the number of
writes to it. Data integrity is more important to me than endurance of
the storage media hence the need for backups.
  #6  
Old October 12th 18, 01:51 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,111
Default SSD and sleep mode?

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:36:09 -0700, Mike wrote:

Windows writes the contents of the working memory to the
hard disk each time you switch to sleep mode and back again as soon as
the PC wakes up. Between 2 and 8 gigabytes of unnecessary data are
written to the hard disk per process! Since SSD hard disks are very fast
anyway, this process is not necessary, but it shortens the life span of
the hard disk enormously.


TBW is the provided SSD rating. This one, for instance, I saw today
sale in the neighborhood of $40 or mo 256G Adata XPG SX850 Sata
SSD. It has an 100TBW. (Unless it was a GIGABYTE UD Pro, I also saw,
neither being stellar in the ratings of a likes of Tom's Hardware.)

So 256 gigabytes over1000 gigabytes for a terabtye written is 256000
divided by 8 gigabytes, SSD Fresh allows, or 4000 sleep cycles. If
you put Windows to sleep once a day, then a SSD with the 100TBW will
last a theoretical 10.9589041096 years before the TBW count is
exceeded and the unit no longer is able to write.

I don't sleep, hibernate or otherwise go green. Or at least I try not
to (my mechanicals are fixed duration in their firmware, at a bare
minimum and necessity, and I haven't yet written a recursive routine
to better, say, read from them at some count just below that firmware
upper allowance).

Although I do define the swap file to a mechanical HDD, which helps
some, I wouldn't, regardless, want to be without platters, not only
for a couple small and dedicated plattered partitions, 8G possibly,
for swap files. I also overprovision SSDs by a smaller factor of
ten-percent, some recommending twenty-five, while others, apparently
exclusive to newer SDDs, are already firmware "over-provisioned".

10.9589041096 years need not be subjectively enormous, exactly, but it
is in principle still about fun time thrashing on your dime, and not
the Operating System's.
  #7  
Old October 12th 18, 09:09 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Mike[_31_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default SSD and sleep mode?

On 10/11/2018 5:51 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 15:36:09 -0700, Mike wrote:

Windows writes the contents of the working memory to the
hard disk each time you switch to sleep mode and back again as soon as
the PC wakes up. Between 2 and 8 gigabytes of unnecessary data are
written to the hard disk per process! Since SSD hard disks are very fast
anyway, this process is not necessary, but it shortens the life span of
the hard disk enormously.


TBW is the provided SSD rating. This one, for instance, I saw today
sale in the neighborhood of $40 or mo 256G Adata XPG SX850 Sata
SSD. It has an 100TBW. (Unless it was a GIGABYTE UD Pro, I also saw,
neither being stellar in the ratings of a likes of Tom's Hardware.)

So 256 gigabytes over1000 gigabytes for a terabtye written is 256000
divided by 8 gigabytes, SSD Fresh allows, or 4000 sleep cycles. If
you put Windows to sleep once a day, then a SSD with the 100TBW will
last a theoretical 10.9589041096 years before the TBW count is
exceeded and the unit no longer is able to write.


You lost me on the math. It's not unusual for my system to sleep 10 times
a day when I'm not using it heavily.
The objective is to have it sleep without writing much of anything.
It's supposed to keep it all in ram instead of writing anything to the
disk...other than housekeeping.

One thing I don't yet grasp is write amplification. If you cache a
web page, there might be hundreds of tiny files involved.

Current bleachbit preview shows 132MB in 1298 files to be deleted.
That's about two days worth of surfing. There's also a lot of stuff
with GUID identifiers. Have no idea what that is.

I have no idea whether deleting caches and all the other stuff bleachbit
deletes is good or bad for an SSD.

Another thing I fret over is what used to be called the file allocation
table.
IF that's a fixed section of the drive, how do you wear level that?
Seems like that would be the most written section of the drive.


I don't sleep, hibernate or otherwise go green. Or at least I try not
to (my mechanicals are fixed duration in their firmware, at a bare
minimum and necessity, and I haven't yet written a recursive routine
to better, say, read from them at some count just below that firmware
upper allowance).

Although I do define the swap file to a mechanical HDD, which helps
some, I wouldn't, regardless, want to be without platters, not only
for a couple small and dedicated plattered partitions, 8G possibly,
for swap files.


I don't need much ram. Been at 4GB for years. This machine has 8GB.
I put a small swapfile on a spinner drive, but It probably won't ever
be needed.

I also overprovision SSDs by a smaller factor of
ten-percent, some recommending twenty-five, while others, apparently
exclusive to newer SDDs, are already firmware "over-provisioned".

10.9589041096 years need not be subjectively enormous, exactly, but it
is in principle still about fun time thrashing on your dime, and not
the Operating System's.

My concern is that I don't understand what's going on behind the curtain.
You can manage the stuff you know about. What you don't know can hurt you.
Timestamp and prefetch are examples I learned from ssdfresh.

  #8  
Old October 12th 18, 12:47 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 832
Default SSD and sleep mode?

Mike wrote:

Another thing I fret over is what used to be called the file allocation
table.
IF that's a fixed section of the drive, how do you wear level that?
Seems like that would be the most written section of the drive.


The SSD has a translation table.

There isn't a linear relationship between external LBA
and internal Flash address. Without the internal translation
table, or if the internal translation table is lost,
data recovery would be pretty damn difficult. The Flash
blocks inside, do not have the same size as the clusters
the file system uses.

A write to LBA 0x1234 can go to location 0x9876 on
one occasion, and to location 0x5432 on the next occasion.
Unused "blocks" are kept in a queue. When you issue
a TRIM command, that gives the drive even more blocks
to use.

And by using that sort of indirection, that gives the
wear leveling leverage. Maybe 0x9876 has 2001 writes
but 0x5432 has only had 2000 writes. So we write to
0x5432 to "bring it up to the same level" as 0x9876.
On average, the blocks all have about the same
number of writes. The flash location might have an
endurance of 3000 writes, and the writes are spread out.

It means the internal (3 core) processor can be
very busy. After a pounding with 4KB writes (where
the internal Flash blocks are a much larger allocation),
the drive rearranges the 4KB blocks and consolidates
them, and this takes an extra write. Larger files,
some of the clusters won't need to be consolidated
and they can be left alone.

Some internal processors also do error correction.
The TLC 512 byte sector might have 50 bytes of
error correction code, which is a lot. The internal
processor works out the error correction polynomial,
and fixes the bit(s) in error. On TLC or QLC, it's
possible every sector has errors (unlike the older
hard drives). You could design a dedicated hardware
block to do the error corrector, but the lazy guys
way is to do it in firmware inside the drive.

With each generation, the quantity (overhead) of
ECC bytes has gone up. SLC wouldn't have needed
50 bytes per sector. A smaller number would
have sufficed.

Blocks that are no longer correctable, are taken
out of service and no longer sit in the free queue.
Their wear leveling days are over.

*******

The toolkit may have a SMART readout with the
absolute total of writes listed as a parameter.
You can check this each day when you get up,
and see how much usage the SSD got. This will
give you some idea how "optimal" your tuning is.

In the past, it was possible to put the browser
cache in RAM. Or, you can set up a RAM Disk
yourself with its own drive letter, and use
F:\my_cache for the cached files. Seeing as my
Seamonkey can have 20K-30K files per day in that
cache, that will remove a tiny amount of wear.

If you watch the pagefile, it's been tuned pretty
well for SSD usage. The system doesn't do a lot
of paging, not nearly as much as in the past.
If you write a memory allocator and "run up"
the memory usage, you just get an out_of_memory
error and your test program stops. And the
"overshoot" hardly causes any usage of the
pagefile. I've started two of those programs
running simultaneously, and that does cause
a narrow "spike" and a tiny tiny bit of pagefile
usage. But that's not a typical user pattern.
So my synthetic tests didn't look overly scary.
I probably lack sufficient imagination to
tease out a pathological case for it.

Paul




Paul


Paul
  #9  
Old October 12th 18, 05:02 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,111
Default SSD and sleep mode?

On Fri, 12 Oct 2018 01:09:14 -0700, Mike wrote:

-

It's not as much math as theory. There are too many marketing
variables between who's selling exactly what -...- how many units of
1000 gigabytes [1T] is for a SSD thus and to be rated: at X-number of
terabytes, over XBrandSSD's 30-days, to a 5-year warranty return on
Samsung or Crucial. Western Digital won't even provide it, for one,
unless it's an exclusively priced Enterprise (corporate sales) level
drive. Good is Samsung. Good is you're dividing into levels of 1000
units [1G=1unit] per terabytes for a "rough idea", say if you plan to
wear out a SSD, on your webserver, being constantly bombarded by
otherwise inane amounts of traffic streaming, in so much a number
happened to be known.

SSDs are highly guarded about proprietary aspects, a controller in
interacting with its memory, and what makes "theirs" better than
anything else available for the hot, hot money you're impatiently
waiting to hand out to the industry. Other than the swap file -- and,
in your case, some constant daily usage of memory swap file for
hibernation purposes -- unless a nature of temporary files is notable
for a greater bulk and constant usage, (to then define that platters),
then I don't worry about small-fry on the SSD. For someone on a
laptop and one SSD that's obviously not my case nor theirs;- they'll
likely apply to that tradeshow observance: that cheaper SSDs in widely
affordable laptops have an industry allowance, in general, for a
year's usage on a 'dems dats breaks' mean.

You don't need to know what's going on behind the curtain. As I said,
since it's a guarded and proprietary industry methodology as well to
control how memory is controlled by an individual brand SSD, over
another brand SSD, then all you can do is follow the pack for a
theoretical level of how users are interpreting fundamental
similarities, between them, for a general optimal in favoring *all*
SSD usage from some set patternistic generalities (TRIM usage,
overprovisioning, defraying needless write redundancy when a platter
driver is provisionally available).
 




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