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old computer acting odd



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 28th 17, 07:03 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_26_]
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Posts: 701
Default old computer acting odd

Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:36:49 -0400, "Bill Cunningham"
wrote:

"Paul" wrote in message
news
Bill Cunningham wrote:

...

The monitor cable to the back of the tower both have screws on each end to
screw into the pins.

Bill


Maybe the Motherboard battery has run down; get a new one, and clean
the terminals too.


But he can "hear things loading", so it's finished POST.
Just no video.

If the video were broken bad enough, the BIOS would have
beep codes. That means, as far as the BIOS is concerned,
the system is drawing pictures on the screen. Just the path
between video output and screen isn't working. If the monitor
tests good on something else, it means a video output problem.

Paul
  #12  
Old September 28th 17, 05:26 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Bill Cunningham[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default old computer acting odd


"Paul" wrote in message
news
Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:36:49 -0400, "Bill Cunningham"
wrote:

"Paul" wrote in message


But he can "hear things loading", so it's finished POST.
Just no video.

If the video were broken bad enough, the BIOS would have
beep codes. That means, as far as the BIOS is concerned,
the system is drawing pictures on the screen. Just the path
between video output and screen isn't working. If the monitor
tests good on something else, it means a video output problem.


maybe the term "fuzzy" should be "shaky" or shaking letters. Then it
might boot and be ok. Or the screen goes blank and stays that way. The Dell
monitor power light flashes when the computer isn't sending a signal to the
monitor.

Bill


  #13  
Old September 28th 17, 07:54 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 701
Default old computer acting odd

Bill Cunningham wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
news
Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:36:49 -0400, "Bill Cunningham"
wrote:

"Paul" wrote in message


But he can "hear things loading", so it's finished POST.
Just no video.

If the video were broken bad enough, the BIOS would have
beep codes. That means, as far as the BIOS is concerned,
the system is drawing pictures on the screen. Just the path
between video output and screen isn't working. If the monitor
tests good on something else, it means a video output problem.


maybe the term "fuzzy" should be "shaky" or shaking letters. Then it
might boot and be ok. Or the screen goes blank and stays that way. The Dell
monitor power light flashes when the computer isn't sending a signal to the
monitor.

Bill


You're going to need to insert a cheap video card in there
to fix it. Since it's WinXP, an older card will be OK.
But since you like to use x64 OS, the driver availability
will be a question at this date.

You might need to get into the BIOS and select
"AGP first" if you can buy and fit an AGP card.
Or "PCI first", if you buy and fit a PCI video card
(I have one of those here, for testing). Your onboard
video will need to remain running, until you can change
that setting.

Back in that era, I was using FX5200 cards. Or today, up
until recently, I could get 6200 cards as "native cards".

If the machine had a x16 PCI express slot, you'd be
laughing, and then there's a ton of $40 cards to
choose from. Otherwise, the pickings can be pretty thin.

It's a pretty late date to be shopping for a 15 year old
machine for a new video card. I would be trying my
"surplus" guy, who buys hardware on consignment. He
doesn't have a catalog, and he "runs upstairs" and
finds stuff. And you have no way of knowing what
he'll come down the stairs with.

While places like Newegg used to have stock, the
manufacturers will eventually run out of old chips.
Although it's amazing how long they've been
able to make ATI 7000 cards.

You're going to need to identify the video slot
type, before you can shop for a card. Even if you
recycle a card from some other broken computer,
you'll still need to make sure it fits. (With
the power off of course.) Don't insert a card while
+5VSB is still running.

FX5200 AGP ~$50 (ships from Asia)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA85V6DP5103

Full height 6200 AGP at a ridiculous price

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIACUE5JD4151

HD3450 ATI for a PCI slot (and they *still* have some 7000 cards
and they're not a lot cheaper!).

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIADYY6BJ2908

That stuff should all have WinXP era drivers.

Paul

  #14  
Old September 30th 17, 02:25 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Bill Cunningham[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default old computer acting odd


"Paul" wrote in message
news
Bill Cunningham wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
news
Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:36:49 -0400, "Bill Cunningham"
wrote:

"Paul" wrote in message


But he can "hear things loading", so it's finished POST.
Just no video.

If the video were broken bad enough, the BIOS would have
beep codes. That means, as far as the BIOS is concerned,
the system is drawing pictures on the screen. Just the path
between video output and screen isn't working. If the monitor
tests good on something else, it means a video output problem.


maybe the term "fuzzy" should be "shaky" or shaking letters. Then it
might boot and be ok. Or the screen goes blank and stays that way. The
Dell monitor power light flashes when the computer isn't sending a signal
to the monitor.

Bill


You're going to need to insert a cheap video card in there
to fix it. Since it's WinXP, an older card will be OK.
But since you like to use x64 OS, the driver availability
will be a question at this date.

You might need to get into the BIOS and select
"AGP first" if you can buy and fit an AGP card.
Or "PCI first", if you buy and fit a PCI video card
(I have one of those here, for testing). Your onboard
video will need to remain running, until you can change
that setting.

Back in that era, I was using FX5200 cards. Or today, up
until recently, I could get 6200 cards as "native cards".

If the machine had a x16 PCI express slot, you'd be
laughing, and then there's a ton of $40 cards to
choose from. Otherwise, the pickings can be pretty thin.

It's a pretty late date to be shopping for a 15 year old
machine for a new video card. I would be trying my
"surplus" guy, who buys hardware on consignment. He
doesn't have a catalog, and he "runs upstairs" and
finds stuff. And you have no way of knowing what
he'll come down the stairs with.

While places like Newegg used to have stock, the
manufacturers will eventually run out of old chips.
Although it's amazing how long they've been
able to make ATI 7000 cards.

You're going to need to identify the video slot
type, before you can shop for a card. Even if you
recycle a card from some other broken computer,
you'll still need to make sure it fits. (With
the power off of course.) Don't insert a card while
+5VSB is still running.

FX5200 AGP ~$50 (ships from Asia)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA85V6DP5103

Full height 6200 AGP at a ridiculous price

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIACUE5JD4151

HD3450 ATI for a PCI slot (and they *still* have some 7000 cards
and they're not a lot cheaper!).

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIADYY6BJ2908

That stuff should all have WinXP era drivers.


What do you think of this Paul? It's more in my price range.
https://www.outletpc.com/ez6786.html

IDK about XP drivers.

Bill



  #15  
Old September 30th 17, 08:42 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 701
Default old computer acting odd

Bill Cunningham wrote:


What do you think of this Paul? It's more in my price range.
https://www.outletpc.com/ez6786.html

IDK about XP drivers.

Bill


The edge connector is PCI Express, a different standard
than PCI or AGP. PCI Express are definitely cheaper,
and there are a lot more to choose from. But you're not
going to find that in a year 2000 computer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express

"Year created 2004; 13 years ago"

Before going shopping, you have to review the slots
available on the motherboard. The make and model of the
PC would be a start. If you built the computer yourself
from parts, then the make and model of the motherboard
would be good to know. There are a few motherboards
made by PCChips, that have no useful markings whatsoever
on them. The rest can have an identifier in the silk
screen. For example, my first PC motherboard was an
Asus P2B-S, as part of a homebuild around year 2000.
And it had PCI and AGP slots, but no PCI Express.
I couldn't put that card above in it. I could also
stick an ATI 9800 Pro in it, but the stupid
motherboard would beep and there would be no
video. That was caused by a lack of slot power.

There is "selection lore" with each socket standard,
so the faster you identify what you need, the faster
we can narrow the field. The FX5200 for example,
is a good universal AGP donor. The 6200 on AGP would
be a close second, at this late date. They're not the
nicest cards (super-fast gaming), but they're likely to work.

This is a great page for AGP. It's only missing
a tiny bit of selection lore (for cards you're
not likely to find for sale new now anyway).

http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

PCI Express has selection rules too, but I'm not
aware of any nice summary pages, for the few years
worth of stuff that caused problems. PCI Express is
supposed to auto-negotiate (like most hardware),
but some combos, the "faster" cards refused to
gear down to the "slower" slot speed.

It's the same with SATA hard drives. A VIA 8237
Southbridge can do SATA I, but if you connect
a SATA II or SATA III drive, they won't work.
If you set the jumper on the SATA II drive, to
Force150, it works with an 8237. However, most
of the drives today are SATA III, and the jumper
on those only sets the drive to SATA II, which
won't work with the SATA I Southbridge ports that
don't negotiate properly. So the PCI Express slot
issue is similar to one of those issues. Except
video cards don't have a jumper like that.

AGP and PCI can have voltage issues. And if you
put your mind to it, say find an SIS305 in the
junk bin at your surplus store, you could blow
out the AGP slot on your motherboard. My P4B Rev.105
motherboard, was one of the first equipped with
a magic shutoff circuit, just to prevent the
SIS305 mis-keyed AGP cards from blowing up
the slot :-) At the time, I found the warning,
and I made the guy at my computer store take
the motherboard out of the box and verify it
was revision 1.05. It's highly unlikely you
could find one of those "bad" video cards today,
and that's an example of "selection lore".

Paul
  #16  
Old September 30th 17, 06:14 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Bill Cunningham[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default old computer acting odd


"Paul" wrote in message
news
Bill Cunningham wrote:


What do you think of this Paul? It's more in my price range.
https://www.outletpc.com/ez6786.html

IDK about XP drivers.

Bill


The edge connector is PCI Express, a different standard
than PCI or AGP. PCI Express are definitely cheaper,
and there are a lot more to choose from. But you're not
going to find that in a year 2000 computer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express

"Year created 2004; 13 years ago"

Before going shopping, you have to review the slots
available on the motherboard. The make and model of the
PC would be a start. If you built the computer yourself
from parts, then the make and model of the motherboard
would be good to know. There are a few motherboards
made by PCChips, that have no useful markings whatsoever
on them. The rest can have an identifier in the silk
screen. For example, my first PC motherboard was an
Asus P2B-S, as part of a homebuild around year 2000.
And it had PCI and AGP slots, but no PCI Express.
I couldn't put that card above in it. I could also
stick an ATI 9800 Pro in it, but the stupid
motherboard would beep and there would be no
video. That was caused by a lack of slot power.

There is "selection lore" with each socket standard,
so the faster you identify what you need, the faster
we can narrow the field. The FX5200 for example,
is a good universal AGP donor. The 6200 on AGP would
be a close second, at this late date. They're not the
nicest cards (super-fast gaming), but they're likely to work.

This is a great page for AGP. It's only missing
a tiny bit of selection lore (for cards you're
not likely to find for sale new now anyway).

http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

PCI Express has selection rules too, but I'm not
aware of any nice summary pages, for the few years
worth of stuff that caused problems. PCI Express is
supposed to auto-negotiate (like most hardware),
but some combos, the "faster" cards refused to
gear down to the "slower" slot speed.

It's the same with SATA hard drives. A VIA 8237
Southbridge can do SATA I, but if you connect
a SATA II or SATA III drive, they won't work.
If you set the jumper on the SATA II drive, to
Force150, it works with an 8237. However, most
of the drives today are SATA III, and the jumper
on those only sets the drive to SATA II, which
won't work with the SATA I Southbridge ports that
don't negotiate properly. So the PCI Express slot
issue is similar to one of those issues. Except
video cards don't have a jumper like that.

AGP and PCI can have voltage issues. And if you
put your mind to it, say find an SIS305 in the
junk bin at your surplus store, you could blow
out the AGP slot on your motherboard. My P4B Rev.105
motherboard, was one of the first equipped with
a magic shutoff circuit, just to prevent the
SIS305 mis-keyed AGP cards from blowing up
the slot :-) At the time, I found the warning,
and I made the guy at my computer store take
the motherboard out of the box and verify it
was revision 1.05. It's highly unlikely you
could find one of those "bad" video cards today,
and that's an example of "selection lore".


OK wel lthe chip I have on the board is ATI Xpress 200 or something like
that. I can't get at it. IDK it's speed and can't remember the mobo number.
But I can get it. Do you think I have enough here to get someone to get he
right thing. This mobo and video doesn't have it's own memory either. It
comes from the DDRAM1.

Bill


  #17  
Old September 30th 17, 06:29 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 701
Default old computer acting odd

Bill Cunningham wrote:


OK wel lthe chip I have on the board is ATI Xpress 200 or something like
that. I can't get at it. IDK it's speed and can't remember the mobo number.
But I can get it. Do you think I have enough here to get someone to get he
right thing. This mobo and video doesn't have it's own memory either. It
comes from the DDRAM1.

Bill


The Wikipedia article says Xpress 200 has PCI Express lanes.
There are versions for Intel and AMD. The Intel version
might have a quad pumped FSB. The version for
AMD might use HyperTransport. That's the connection
between the CPU and the Northbridge. The integrated
graphics are inside the Northbridge. It's quite possible
the Northbridge also hosts the PCI Express lanes (the x16
for the video slot).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xpress_200

CPU --- RAM
|
Northbridge --- PCI Express x16
|
SB400 ???
|
SATA

You still want to verify by looking inside the computer,
that there is an x16 slot present, and your 8400GS
candidate will fit.

https://www.outletpc.com/ez6786.html

The BIOS may have an entry for "setting the PCI Express slot
first". That might be used to help the BIOS, on the
next POST, to use the new video card for display
purposes. But setting these old motherboards up,
requires that the built-in GPU remain healthy.

There have been some posters, that yes, they got
the video card working, but if the CMOS battery
ever dies, they could lose their settings... And
without a working internal GPU, cannot get to the
BIOS screen and re-set the PCI Express for display
purposes. And that means they're dead in the water,
if the BIOS ever loses the settings. Even switching
off the power in mid-session, could risk that
happening.

On the better designed BIOS codes, they sense a
PCI Express video is present, turn off the integrated
graphics, and the user doesn't have to do a thing.
On the older designs, things weren't always that
clever. Nobody really thought about what happens
if the internal GPU blows up (no BIOS screen to
correct any settings). So I have run into a poster,
who got a black screen from both the integrated
VGA connector, as well as his video card, and there
wasn't anything that could be done. Adding a different
video card wouldn't help. If he could have seen the
screen, he might have fixed it.

*******

Even if you can find some pictures of the inside of
your branded PC, maybe you can figure out what
slots are present. For example, on older generation
stuff than yours, there used to be solder pads for
an AGP connector, and the cheap *******s wouldn't
solder a connector into it. So even if a Wikipedia
article "said the chipset had AGP", the socket
for it could be missing! It pays to have a look,
before you buy something. When you go to install
it, you're going to have to open the case :-)

Paul
  #18  
Old September 30th 17, 09:02 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Bill Cunningham[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default old computer acting odd


"Paul" wrote in message
news
Bill Cunningham wrote:


00:00.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
RS480/RS482/RS485 Host Bridge
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RC4xx/RS4xx PCI
Bridge [int gfx]
00:11.0 IDE interface: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB400
Serial ATA Controller
00:12.0 IDE interface: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0
Serial ATA Controller
00:13.0 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 USB
Host Controller
00:13.1 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 USB
Host Controller
00:13.2 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0
USB2 Host Controller
00:14.0 SMBus: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 SMBus
Controller (rev 04)
00:14.1 IDE interface: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 IDE
Controller
00:14.3 ISA bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 PCI-ISA
Bridge
00:14.4 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 PCI-PCI
Bridge
00:14.5 Multimedia audio controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
IXP SB400 AC'97 Audio Controller
00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] K8
[Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration
00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] K8
[Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map
00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] K8
[Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller
00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] K8
[Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control
01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
RS480 [Radeon Xpress 200 Series]
02:00.0 Multimedia controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
Theater 550 PRO PCI [ATI TV Wonder 550]
02:01.0 Communication controller: Conexant Systems, Inc. HSF 56k Data/Fax
Modem
02:03.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
RTL-8100/8101L/8139 PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter (rev 10)
02:04.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6306/7/8 [Fire II(M)]
IEEE 1394 OHCI Controller (rev 80)

This is what linux's lspci command printed. I am pretty sure there is a
"south" bridge driver I have to install. do have an AMD. Maybe this answers
the question. If I have to order online I want to be able to know I am
getting something I will not have to ship back.

Bill


  #19  
Old September 30th 17, 09:06 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Bill Cunningham[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default old computer acting odd


"Bill Cunningham" wrote in message
news

"Paul" wrote in message
news
Bill Cunningham wrote:



I'm pretty sure my BIOS will pick it up. As for CMOS battery, if that went
IDK what all I'd lose.

Bill


 




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