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future CPUs from AMD and Intel



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 21st 17, 05:07 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 1,842
Default future CPUs from AMD and Intel

On Sat, 20 May 2017 20:58:44 -0400, Flasherly
wrote:

including stock, may require research
and an additional cost outlay for a suitable replacement.


Just checked mine. Two CoolerMasters, both oldies but goodies: one
model is a 1) circa socket 478, 2 contained heatwick pipes, ie 4
risers on each side, other's 2) a 4-pipe version, the more modern "EVO
style" with twice the fan-size capacity of the above (think
grapefruits). Home respectively to AMD2+ and Intel 775 socketed MBs.
(Two older quadcores CPUs.)

I've already spinning safety-wire pliers (used a lot in military for
such as aircraft, to double-secure fasteners for equipment in rugged
usage with spun or twisted solid wire). All I'll need is a hand
egg-beater drill to drill out a new MB's socket.

Those both are damn good coolers. The early EVO style, especially
(the Intel CPU never deviates more than a few degrees above ambient).
But I won't be a happy camper if I get a AMD3+ socket that's a few
millimeters off for the CoolerMasters' clip/catches to those fans.
I'll figure out something on the last-ditch CPU cooler swap-show, or
at least give a hard shot at it first;- be another story of course if
it didn't hold up to six- possibly 8-cores loaded and encoding,
full-bore, maybe some heavy-duty chained audio processing.

Right. SomeJB Weld, eh.
  #13  
Old June 22nd 17, 11:51 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_26_]
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Posts: 480
Default future CPUs from AMD and Intel

Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 18/05/2017 5:49 AM, wrote:
Looks like Ryzen has got Intel's complacent bowels unblocked.
They are bringing out an "i9" with 12 cores.
But AMD will be competing with "Threadripper" a 16-core beast.
Unfortunately, it seems that will use the 4000-pins server socket.
So I can't see it being cheap.


Well, since your original posting, Intel has upped the ante to 18 cores
and 36 threads, just to pip AMD's 16 cores/32 thread monster.

However, AMD Threadripper seems to bring something truly useful (to some
people, anyways) beyond just more cores, it's also bringing 64 PCIe
lanes to the motherboard. That means you can put upto 4 full-16-lane
GPU's into this system, or upto 8 half-8-lane GPUs! Intel is petering
out at only 44-lanes. What is 44-lanes useful for anyways? 3
full-16-lane GPU's actually require 48 lanes, so they can't even get a
3rd full-lane in there, instead they have 2 full-16-lane, and one
factional-12-lane slot. Is there even an x12 slot? There are x16 and x8
slots, but no x12 slots.


Before you celebrate in too lavish a fashion, better look
at the actual block diagrams of the systems being built.
I'm seeing a lot less than the theoretical lane count
in the actual designs. They're squandering the excess.
I was a bit disappointed, because I was buying into the
hype, and then the actual motherboard was a lot less.

On (Intel) systems where there aren't a lot of lanes to go
around, that's when the motherboard makers bring out the
PCI Express switch chips. The AMD motherboards, no effort is
being made to "present" all the lanes so a user can use them.

And the prices on the Epyc server offerings are not
attractive for re-purposing for desktops. AMD will be binning
the chips, and the ones that don't pass, will go into the
SKUs with reduced core counts. There are some interesting
chips with one out of four cores in a cluster enabled,
but the article said it would be a while before they
had enough of those, and those particular models will likely
all be gobbled up so none go to retail.

That's the thing about glossy slide decks - the paint isn't
quite as shiny when you get the actual item.

If you're in the market for a ThreadRipper, then the question
will be, is it a cost effective compute platform, and does
it meet some need you've got. The lane thing is kinda watered
down by the nature of actual implementation.

Paul
  #14  
Old June 24th 17, 12:37 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
[email protected]
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Posts: 118
Default future CPUs from AMD and Intel

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 10:19:16 AM UTC+8, Yousuf Khan wrote:

Well, since your original posting, Intel has upped the ante to 18 cores
and 36 threads, just to pip AMD's 16 cores/32 thread monster.


The 10-cylinder i9 7900x is out, but is burning a lot of gasoline on the dyno.
So will be interested to see how hot 18 runs.

  #15  
Old June 24th 17, 04:09 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_35_]
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Posts: 167
Default future CPUs from AMD and Intel

wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 10:19:16 AM UTC+8, Yousuf Khan wrote:
Well, since your original posting, Intel has upped the ante to 18 cores
and 36 threads, just to pip AMD's 16 cores/32 thread monster.

The 10-cylinder i9 7900x is out, but is burning a lot of gasoline on the dyno.
So will be interested to see how hot 18 runs.

Is anyone else watching the rise of AMD stock price and the fall of INTC
stock price along with AMD's new releases. If I understand correctly,
this is the sort of hardware that supports "the cloud" (I can't help but
look up when I think about it). My long-held impression was that AMD
was mostly a "copycat". Side by side, how do you think they stack up
now (and looking forward)?

  #16  
Old June 24th 17, 05:31 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_26_]
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Posts: 480
Default future CPUs from AMD and Intel

Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 10:19:16 AM UTC+8, Yousuf Khan wrote:
Well, since your original posting, Intel has upped the ante to 18 cores
and 36 threads, just to pip AMD's 16 cores/32 thread monster.

The 10-cylinder i9 7900x is out, but is burning a lot of gasoline on
the dyno.
So will be interested to see how hot 18 runs.

Is anyone else watching the rise of AMD stock price and the fall of INTC
stock price along with AMD's new releases. If I understand correctly,
this is the sort of hardware that supports "the cloud" (I can't help but
look up when I think about it). My long-held impression was that AMD
was mostly a "copycat". Side by side, how do you think they stack up
now (and looking forward)?


Then you don't know much about AMD then.

When I was 18, I cut my teeth on a copy of Mick and Brick
and the 2900 series bitslice. At the time, I couldn't afford
parts, but I did a paper design of a bitslice with a 100ns microcycle.

So even back then, they were doing interesting stuff. This was
RISC stuff rather than CISC, and some of it very nice. Later,
single chip products started appearing inside printers, but this
is not something a user would notice. This was RISC with three-address
instructions. You could write decent code with it. It wasn't
as Micky Mouse as some other RISC.

AMD is currently a much smaller company than Intel. And if you
were to look at the underlying technology (silicon interposer,
HBM memory added to APU design, new internal monitoring system
that keeps track of all sorts of internal environmental conditions),
I think you should be impressed.

For comparison, Intels innovation was the FIVR voltage
regulator (co-habits Haswell die), which has since been removed.
And Intel did some MCM chips. But that's nothing, compared
to using a silicon interposer. Or making chips with ~4000
contacts. Intel did learn how to design a GPU, but I
guess "that's just copying" :-)

Apparently, the interposer technology comes from AMCor, a third
party company. The gutsy part, is bringing that stuff mainstream,
undercutting Intel on price, paying for the Interposer... and
still remaining in business.

And what really amazes me about the current fab industry, is
the ability for non-processor or non-memory companies, to
roll out cutting edge fab facilities. If you look at Glo-Flo
for example, it's *much* more innovative since it was cut
loose from AMD. And makes a good partner for them, as it's not
stuck using ten year old strained SOS stuff.

And I think this is why both Intel and AMD have a lot to fear
from the ARM camp. The availability of cutting edge fabs,
to people with money, means the "edge provided by owning your
own fab", is really no longer necessary. Intel needs to work
on that. And you'll notice Intel isn't "breezing through this
part of its exam". Fabs are hard, and mis-steps common. This
is what's so weird about the current state of fabs. Why are
there so many successes out there ? It's like space aliens
are running these operations or something.

In this picture from Glo-Flo, there's even a *human* walking
down the aisle. Some competitors, you'll see robotic tray transport
and no humans in the picture. So this is where (some) AMD
products might be fabbed.

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/115...78_678x452.jpg

What AMD lacks is "scale". And now that they're fabless, what
would "scale" even mean ? Would an extra 200 engineers make them
twice as dangerous ? I don't know. I don't know how a fabless
company, can beat Intel. But, they'll try.

Intel's biggest enemy is complacency and incrementalism.
Only once in a while, does their executive team have to
"stop playing golf, and go check on things". Intel has
an incentive to keep AMD around, so if you were wondering,
"why doesn't Intel crush AMD", they don't have to. AMD is
kept as a pet. It's for strategic reasons (to make the
industry look "competitive"). When it really isn't. Only
ARM can make it competitive again, by wiping out Intel
(as desktops disappear).

Intel is worried about its future. They can't keep their
fab full. It's not running at full capacity. IBM had to
dump its fabs, because there wasn't enough production
to justify keeping all of them. IBM will still have
research fabs. And Intel may at some point, decide whether
it's really worth it, to be the last domestic company with
fab capability on-shore. In times of conflict, it's nice to
have something on your own continent.

*******

Stock price doesn't mean a damn thing, to what counts.
The AMD rollout would have to be "absolutely flawless"
for the current numbers to stay put. And technically,
I don't think that's possible. There are bound to be
some rough edges on rollout. Putting 4000 contacts
on Epyc is just asking for trouble. Even some Intel
launches have had problems in the past, for much smaller
LGA sockets. The Foxconn versus Lotes thing. All of
AMDs partners have to be "firing on all cylinders",
for this latest push to work.

Paul
  #17  
Old June 24th 17, 07:31 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_35_]
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Posts: 167
Default future CPUs from AMD and Intel

Paul wrote:
snip
And Intel may at some point, decide whether
it's really worth it, to be the last domestic company with
fab capability on-shore. In times of conflict, it's nice to
have something on your own continent.

*******

This reminds me of the discussion/recent news about the government
trying to protect US Steel (X) from imports, for the sake of our
national interest. Obviously, Intel should be in this category too. I'm
sure that those who need to know are darn well-aware of the issues.

As you may know, AMD went from about 5 to 11 in the past year and shot
up to 14 this week, on news of the release of the Epyc CPUs. The next
earning release is July 20. The (regular) July options expire July 21.
: ) My typical attitude is to be a nay-sayer and say "the move already
happened"...but there could me a lot of pent-up momentum here (too much
for me to be a short seller). I enjoy watching "the game" even without
any money in it. I was ready to buy some shares of Amazon when it
first started being traded, but I let someone on TV talk me out of since
"they were just a bookseller". I would have had my retirement fund
right there.. Similar with Apple...except there, it was my opinion that
most normal people didn't want a computer at home.. I was not thinking
of a "multimedia machine"... Ha.



Stock price doesn't mean a damn thing, to what counts.
The AMD rollout would have to be "absolutely flawless"
for the current numbers to stay put. And technically,
I don't think that's possible. There are bound to be
some rough edges on rollout. Putting 4000 contacts
on Epyc is just asking for trouble. Even some Intel
launches have had problems in the past, for much smaller
LGA sockets. The Foxconn versus Lotes thing. All of
AMDs partners have to be "firing on all cylinders",
for this latest push to work.

Paul


  #18  
Old June 28th 17, 09:49 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Bill[_35_]
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Posts: 167
Default future CPUs from AMD and Intel

Paul wrote:
All of
AMDs partners have to be "firing on all cylinders",
for this latest push to work.

From about 14.50 on Friday to 13.22 today (3 trading days later).
When it rose close to 14.00 last week my initial sentiments were that it
was a good quick short sale. Since this adjustment, I don't have much
conviction... For the sake of future innovation, I hope that AMD's new
CPUs are successful.

 




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