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5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 18th 09, 11:01 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Anthony K.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default 5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?


Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a
modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs? Do IDE
5.25" floppy drives exist? If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure.
Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE
interface?

My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional
BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted
via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the
drive properly.

Any ideas?

Anthony K.
  #2  
Old April 19th 09, 05:15 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Yousuf Khan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 917
Default 5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?

Anthony K. wrote:
Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a
modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs? Do IDE
5.25" floppy drives exist? If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure.
Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE
interface?

My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional
BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted
via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the
drive properly.



Well, I'm sure it's possible to get it to work in a USB, but the floppy
controller interface is not the same as IDE, it predates the IDE
interface by more than a decade. You won't be able to plug a floppy into
an IDE interface. However, there are direct floppy to USB drives
available these days, most seem to be of the 3.5" floppy variety.

Here's some examples from one vendor:

Canada Floppy Disk Drives, Floppy Drive, External Floppy Drives, USB
Floppy Drive at TigerDirect.ca
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio....asp?CatId=287

Yousuf Khan
  #3  
Old April 19th 09, 10:30 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Arno[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,441
Default 5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?

Anthony K. -removeme wrote:

Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a
modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs?
Do IDE 5.25" floppy drives exist?


Not to my knowledge. There used to be very expensive SCSI
floppy controllers, that could also handle 5.25" drives, but
that was way past. They did cost more than a cheap PC.

If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure.


Very unlikely. These IDE-USB bridges do not understand
floppies.

Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE
interface?


Not as far as I know.

My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional
BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted
via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the
drive properly.


Any ideas?


What is it you actually want to do? The additional problem with your
MAC is that it very likely cannot handle the 5.25" floppy formats
anyways.

The only option I see is to get a cheap (used?) PC in addition and
read the data off from those floppies and transfer it over, e.g.
by memory stick. AFAIK, you will need to use either Linux or DOS
to read the disks, as not even XP does support 5.25" floppies.
Under Linux, it should not be too much of a problem though.

Incidentially, it could be a problem _getting_ a working 5.25"
floppy these days. AFAIK they have not been manufatured for
quite some time. Also make sure to get the right one. There
are 40/80 track, single/double-sided, and HD drives out there.
Only the HD drives can read all formatsm but should not be used
to write 40 track disks.

Arno

  #4  
Old April 19th 09, 09:35 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Franc Zabkar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,121
Default 5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:15:56 -0400, Yousuf Khan put
finger to keyboard and composed:

Anthony K. wrote:
Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a
modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs? Do IDE
5.25" floppy drives exist? If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure.
Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE
interface?

My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional
BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted
via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the
drive properly.



Well, I'm sure it's possible to get it to work in a USB, but the floppy
controller interface is not the same as IDE, it predates the IDE
interface by more than a decade. You won't be able to plug a floppy into
an IDE interface. However, there are direct floppy to USB drives
available these days, most seem to be of the 3.5" floppy variety.

Here's some examples from one vendor:

Canada Floppy Disk Drives, Floppy Drive, External Floppy Drives, USB
Floppy Drive at TigerDirect.ca
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio....asp?CatId=287

Yousuf Khan


If you can find a case with a standard +5V and +12V supply, plus the
standard 34-pin connector, then you should be able to remove the 3.5"
FDD and replace it with a 5.25" drive. You will need an adapter for
the power connector, though. I suspect, however, that the 3.5" drive
in the external enclosure may not use a standard PC interface. See the
following pinouts:

http://pinouts.ru/Storage/5_12_floppy_pinout.shtml
http://pinouts.ru/Storage/26pin_micr...y_pinout.shtml
http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml
http://pinouts.ru/DiskCables/Floppy_pinout.shtml

Be wary of USB powered enclosures as these may not have enough power
(500mA max at +5V) for a 5.25" drive. Also be aware that PC FDDs are
jumpered as drive 1, not drive 0, so you will either have to find a
cable with a twist, or determine how to re-jumper your drive.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
  #5  
Old April 20th 09, 12:45 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Arno[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,441
Default 5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?

Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:15:56 -0400, Yousuf Khan put
finger to keyboard and composed:


Anthony K. wrote:
Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a
modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs? Do IDE
5.25" floppy drives exist? If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure.
Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE
interface?

My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional
BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted
via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the
drive properly.



Well, I'm sure it's possible to get it to work in a USB, but the floppy
controller interface is not the same as IDE, it predates the IDE
interface by more than a decade. You won't be able to plug a floppy into
an IDE interface. However, there are direct floppy to USB drives
available these days, most seem to be of the 3.5" floppy variety.

Here's some examples from one vendor:

Canada Floppy Disk Drives, Floppy Drive, External Floppy Drives, USB
Floppy Drive at TigerDirect.ca
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio....asp?CatId=287

Yousuf Khan


If you can find a case with a standard +5V and +12V supply, plus the
standard 34-pin connector, then you should be able to remove the 3.5"
FDD and replace it with a 5.25" drive. You will need an adapter for
the power connector, though. I suspect, however, that the 3.5" drive
in the external enclosure may not use a standard PC interface. See the
following pinouts:


http://pinouts.ru/Storage/5_12_floppy_pinout.shtml
http://pinouts.ru/Storage/26pin_micr...y_pinout.shtml
http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml
http://pinouts.ru/DiskCables/Floppy_pinout.shtml


Be wary of USB powered enclosures as these may not have enough power
(500mA max at +5V) for a 5.25" drive. Also be aware that PC FDDs are
jumpered as drive 1, not drive 0, so you will either have to find a
cable with a twist, or determine how to re-jumper your drive.


There are some additional problems:

- Some 3.5" USB floppy do not have a Shuggart bus (mine has not).
Youd id mention that.
- Many 5.25" Floppies have a very low resistance (120R) pullup on
/step /date and, I think, /WR, while most 3.5" floppies just draw
one standard TTL load (1.6mA). You may need singal drivers or need
to find and cut the pullups.
- HD 5.25" floppis run at 360rpm instead of the 300rpm all 3.5"
floppies run at. That may confuse the controller and may
make access impossible.

Arno
  #6  
Old April 20th 09, 01:57 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Anthony K.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default 5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?


Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Looks like it's really an
impossibility. I had completely forgotten just how many years have
passed since 5.25" floppies and USB. I kept a working 5.25" in my PC for
many years alongside a 3.5" FDD.

It's apparently not a matter of just gutting a 3.5" FDD USB drive and
connecting a 5.25". The controller will likely not be able to talk
5.25", and even if it did, there's other issues: MFM, proper power, etc.
Too much voodoo to address. 3.5" floppies aren't a concern at all as
there are USB options for those. I did once see a SCSI to USB adapter
cable online. Who knows, maybe a SCSI 5.25" FDD would work with that.

Arno, since you asked what I was trying to do: I have a collection of
good condition single and double sided 5.25" floppies from a couple of
different systems: PC DOS and Apple II. Some of it is old data I'm
curious about, but most of it is vintage software and games. My goal was
to make images of the disc for use on a modern computer, using
virtualization software to emulate DOS and Apple II. This would be more
convenient for me than maintaining two more computers. It's enough I've
got to deal with C64 and Amiga stuff too. I can always go the PC +
Slackware route, or just enjoy the disks on a vintage machine, but it
would have been nice to have to explain why I need to buy yet another
old computer.


Anthony
  #7  
Old April 20th 09, 04:03 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Arno[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,441
Default 5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?

Anthony K. -removeme wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Looks like it's really an
impossibility. I had completely forgotten just how many years have
passed since 5.25" floppies and USB. I kept a working 5.25" in my PC for
many years alongside a 3.5" FDD.


It's apparently not a matter of just gutting a 3.5" FDD USB drive and
connecting a 5.25". The controller will likely not be able to talk
5.25", and even if it did, there's other issues: MFM, proper power, etc.
Too much voodoo to address. 3.5" floppies aren't a concern at all as
there are USB options for those. I did once see a SCSI to USB adapter
cable online. Who knows, maybe a SCSI 5.25" FDD would work with that.


Arno, since you asked what I was trying to do: I have a collection of
good condition single and double sided 5.25" floppies from a couple of
different systems: PC DOS and Apple II. Some of it is old data I'm
curious about, but most of it is vintage software and games. My goal was
to make images of the disc for use on a modern computer, using
virtualization software to emulate DOS and Apple II. This would be more
convenient for me than maintaining two more computers. It's enough I've
got to deal with C64 and Amiga stuff too. I can always go the PC +
Slackware route, or just enjoy the disks on a vintage machine, but it
would have been nice to have to explain why I need to buy yet another
old computer.


Well, I has a similar but easier problem with my old
Atari ST floppies. Fortunately they have the standard PC format.

The way I went is that I made sector0-images of them all, currently
on a memory-stick and on several file0servers. I do not really know
how I can mount them though. The first thiong I would try is a
loopback mount under Linux of the image files.

It is just too much effort to keep the old hardware running IMO.

Arno
  #8  
Old April 20th 09, 08:08 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
GMAN[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default 5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?

In article , Yousuf Khan wrote:
Anthony K. wrote:
Is it possible to get a vintage 5.25" PC floppy drive connected to a
modern PC with no floppy controller and just USB/FireWire inputs? Do IDE
5.25" floppy drives exist? If so, I could drop one into a USB enclosure.
Is there an adapter that would let me connect a floppy drive to an IDE
interface?

My specific machine is a Macintosh so I'm certain there are additional
BIOS issues, but I figure, as long as I am able to get the drive mounted
via USB, I could run Windows or just virtualize DOS in order to see the
drive properly.



Well, I'm sure it's possible to get it to work in a USB, but the floppy
controller interface is not the same as IDE, it predates the IDE
interface by more than a decade. You won't be able to plug a floppy into
an IDE interface. However, there are direct floppy to USB drives
available these days, most seem to be of the 3.5" floppy variety.

Here's some examples from one vendor:

Canada Floppy Disk Drives, Floppy Drive, External Floppy Drives, USB
Floppy Drive at TigerDirect.ca
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio....asp?CatId=287

Yousuf Khan

Heres a 3 1/2 ide floppy drive from clear back in 1998

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_20324080/
  #9  
Old April 20th 09, 08:11 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
GMAN[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default 5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?

In article , Arno wrote:
Anthony K. -removeme wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. Looks like it's really an
impossibility. I had completely forgotten just how many years have
passed since 5.25" floppies and USB. I kept a working 5.25" in my PC for
many years alongside a 3.5" FDD.


It's apparently not a matter of just gutting a 3.5" FDD USB drive and
connecting a 5.25". The controller will likely not be able to talk
5.25", and even if it did, there's other issues: MFM, proper power, etc.
Too much voodoo to address. 3.5" floppies aren't a concern at all as
there are USB options for those. I did once see a SCSI to USB adapter
cable online. Who knows, maybe a SCSI 5.25" FDD would work with that.


Arno, since you asked what I was trying to do: I have a collection of
good condition single and double sided 5.25" floppies from a couple of
different systems: PC DOS and Apple II. Some of it is old data I'm
curious about, but most of it is vintage software and games. My goal was
to make images of the disc for use on a modern computer, using
virtualization software to emulate DOS and Apple II. This would be more
convenient for me than maintaining two more computers. It's enough I've
got to deal with C64 and Amiga stuff too. I can always go the PC +
Slackware route, or just enjoy the disks on a vintage machine, but it
would have been nice to have to explain why I need to buy yet another
old computer.


Well, I has a similar but easier problem with my old
Atari ST floppies. Fortunately they have the standard PC format.

The way I went is that I made sector0-images of them all, currently
on a memory-stick and on several file0servers. I do not really know
how I can mount them though. The first thiong I would try is a
loopback mount under Linux of the image files.

It is just too much effort to keep the old hardware running IMO.

Arno

It was a piece of cake to make a 5 1/4 floppy drive for the ST. I have one
sitting in my closet.
  #10  
Old April 20th 09, 08:16 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Franc Zabkar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,121
Default 5.25" floppy drive to IDE to USB?

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:57:53 -0700, "Anthony K."
-removeme put finger to keyboard and
composed:

It's apparently not a matter of just gutting a 3.5" FDD USB drive and
connecting a 5.25". The controller will likely not be able to talk
5.25",...


SMSC had a USB bridge chip (USB97CFDC2-01) that supported "640K, 720K,
1.44M, 1.2M Windows 98 J, and 1.2M NEC DOS 6.x Formats":

http://www.keil.com/dd/docs/datashts...usb97cfdc2.pdf

Its USB VID and PID were 0424 and 0fdc. Perhaps you could determine
the VID and PID of the bridge chip in a prospective USB floppy
enclosure by interrogating it using UVCView (Microsoft), or an
equivalent Linux or MAC utility. Then search for a datasheet.

If the box has Windows 98SE drivers, then the VID and PID should
appear in its INF file.

In fact, according to page 5 of the driver installation instructions,
the Sabrent model SBT-UFDB USB floppy uses an SMSC chip:

http://www.micropactech.com/drivers/...e%20Driver.pdf
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...9134&CatId=287

Unfortunately it is USB powered (500mA max) and does not appear to
support transfer rates less than 500Kbps.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 




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