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Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 5th 12, 04:07 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS

Hi, John.

Actually, is there _any_ email software (XP, 7, or even '9x) that stores
each email as a separate real file? (In real folders/directories?)


Yes! As pointed out by Mortimer a few posts down...

Windows Mail, OE's successor that was integrated into Windows Vista over 5
years ago, discarded OE's All-In-One humongous DBX file approach and
introduced a new scheme. Other more-techie users can describe the details
better than I can, but in WM, each email message is saved in a separate .eml
file, and each newsgroup post in its own .nws file. Windows Live Mail
continues this new scheme.

A DBX file was very efficient use of storage: 1,000 messages of 1 K bytes
(including overhead) each would use only 1,000 KB on the disk. But, as you
noted, one bad bit in the 1 MB file could lose all 1,000 messages. In the
WM/WLM scheme, each of the 1,000 small files would take its own 4 KB
cluster, for a total of 4 MB, but one bad file would leave the other 999
messages unscathed. And, each message can be individually accessed and
edited by programs other than WM/WLM.

As I'm sure you know, OE was an integral part of WinXP/9x; WM was an
integral part of Vista; but Win7 contains NO mail or news app at all. WLM
was never an integral part of any Windows OS, but can be downloaded and
installed into WinXP/Vista/Win7 - and I'm now using it in the Win8 Release
Preview. (WinXP can run 2009 and prior versions of WLM, but not 2011. Some
users have installed WM into Win7, but that is not supported by Microsoft.)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win8 (Release Preview)


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...

In message , Yousuf Khan
writes:
On 03/06/2012 2:28 AM, DK wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On 6/2/2012 8:54 PM PT, Ant typed:

Nah, we haven't touched QEMM, Extended vs. Expanded RAM ;-)

No no! XMS, EMS, conventional memory (EVIL!!), config.sys,
autoexec.bat,
etc.

Oh remember, DoubleSpace, Stacker, etc.?


I do. Stacker was absolutely great!


But DoubleSpace was horrible. I lost a lot of data due to that one.

Yousuf Khan

Basically, it put all your files into one file, didn't it? So you could
lose it/them all at once if that file got corrupted. And yet, people
continue to use email (and possibly news) software that does that (for
emails), ...

Actually, is there _any_ email software (XP, 7, or even '9x) that stores
each email as a separate real file? (In real folders/directories?)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)[email protected]+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Won't you come into the garden? I would like my roses to see
you. -Richard


  #2  
Old June 5th 12, 05:29 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Mortimer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS

"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
As I'm sure you know, OE was an integral part of WinXP/9x; WM was an
integral part of Vista; but Win7 contains NO mail or news app at all. WLM
was never an integral part of any Windows OS, but can be downloaded and
installed into WinXP/Vista/Win7 - and I'm now using it in the Win8 Release
Preview. (WinXP can run 2009 and prior versions of WLM, but not 2011.
Some users have installed WM into Win7, but that is not supported by
Microsoft.)


Every Windows 7 PC that I've seen has had Windows Live Mail already
installed. It may be that a lot of PC vendors who supply their PCs
pre-installed with Win 7 add it to the customised builds of Win 7 that they
install (along with manufacturer-specific bloatware that they "helpfully"
supply). I'm not sure about an installation from Microsoft's Win 7 CD.

Does anyone have any instructions which actually work for installing WM on
Win 7? I've seen instructions on various web sites but they assume that you
have the same "bitness" of Vista and Win 7, whereas most people have 32-bit
Vista and 64-bit Win 7. I still have a (32-bit) Vista PC that I could copy
the c:\program files folder from. I even found a site which claimed to have
instructions for running 32-bit WM on 64-bit Win 7, but they didn't work:
despite following the instructions to the letter, the exe file crashed (I
forget the precise details - it was a while ago).

The UI of WLM, especially the 2011 rather than 2009 version, with its ribbon
interface, is a real backward step and I wish I could go back to the UI of
WM.

  #3  
Old June 5th 12, 11:10 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS

Hi, Mortimer.

Every Windows 7 PC that I've seen has had Windows Live Mail already
installed. It may be that a lot of PC vendors who supply their PCs
pre-installed with Win 7 add it to the customised builds of Win 7 that
they install (along with manufacturer-specific bloatware that they
"helpfully" supply).


Right. MANY (most?) PC vendors add WLM to all the computers they sell with
Win7 pre-installed. But Microsoft does not do that.

I'm not sure about an installation from Microsoft's Win 7 CD.


The Win7 CD does NOT contain WLM - or any other mail or news app.

As Microsoft says, you are free to install any mail/news app(s) that you
want, and many users do. Or you can download WLMail and any or all the
other "Windows Live Essentials" by simply going to this URL:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...ive-essentials

As you can see, the "Live Essentials" also include WL Messenger, Movie
Maker, Photo Gallery and others.

The UI of WLM, especially the 2011 rather than 2009 version, with its
ribbon interface, is a real backward step and I wish I could go back to
the UI of WM.


The Ribbon UI definitely takes some getting used to! After about a year
with it, I'm comfy with it. But some of WLM's "features" are serious
drawbacks, especially the failure to properly quote the prior thread. I've
not seriously tried to use WM in Win7 (or Win8).

The transition to Win8 is going to be interesting! Win8 includes its own
Mail app, but it is much different from Windows Live Mail. Even here in
Win8 RP, I'm using WLM, not Win8's Mail. It's not clear yet whether that
will still be possible in the final version of Win8.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win8 (Release Preview)


"Mortimer" wrote in message
o.uk...

"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
As I'm sure you know, OE was an integral part of WinXP/9x; WM was an
integral part of Vista; but Win7 contains NO mail or news app at all. WLM
was never an integral part of any Windows OS, but can be downloaded and
installed into WinXP/Vista/Win7 - and I'm now using it in the Win8 Release
Preview. (WinXP can run 2009 and prior versions of WLM, but not 2011.
Some users have installed WM into Win7, but that is not supported by
Microsoft.)


Every Windows 7 PC that I've seen has had Windows Live Mail already
installed. It may be that a lot of PC vendors who supply their PCs
pre-installed with Win 7 add it to the customised builds of Win 7 that they
install (along with manufacturer-specific bloatware that they "helpfully"
supply). I'm not sure about an installation from Microsoft's Win 7 CD.

Does anyone have any instructions which actually work for installing WM on
Win 7? I've seen instructions on various web sites but they assume that you
have the same "bitness" of Vista and Win 7, whereas most people have 32-bit
Vista and 64-bit Win 7. I still have a (32-bit) Vista PC that I could copy
the c:\program files folder from. I even found a site which claimed to have
instructions for running 32-bit WM on 64-bit Win 7, but they didn't work:
despite following the instructions to the letter, the exe file crashed (I
forget the precise details - it was a while ago).

The UI of WLM, especially the 2011 rather than 2009 version, with its ribbon
interface, is a real backward step and I wish I could go back to the UI of
WM.

  #4  
Old June 6th 12, 12:49 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Ken Blake[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:10:06 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote:

The transition to Win8 is going to be interesting! Win8 includes its own
Mail app, but it is much different from Windows Live Mail. Even here in
Win8 RP, I'm using WLM, not Win8's Mail. It's not clear yet whether that
will still be possible in the final version of Win8.



RC, how did you get the s in your reply? Did you add them manually?

  #5  
Old June 6th 12, 02:16 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS

Hi, Ken.

Yes, I had to add the ""'s manually.

For a single line, it's easy.

For a multi-line quote, I have to remove the internal line breaks, then add
just a single "" in front of the first line. When WLM reformats the
paragraph, it adds "" to the beginning of each reformatted line.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win8 (Release Preview)


"Ken Blake" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:10:06 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote:

The transition to Win8 is going to be interesting! Win8 includes its own
Mail app, but it is much different from Windows Live Mail. Even here in
Win8 RP, I'm using WLM, not Win8's Mail. It's not clear yet whether that
will still be possible in the final version of Win8.



RC, how did you get the s in your reply? Did you add them manually?

  #6  
Old June 6th 12, 03:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Ken Blake[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 20:16:58 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote:

Hi, Ken.

Yes, I had to add the ""'s manually.

For a single line, it's easy.

For a multi-line quote, I have to remove the internal line breaks, then add
just a single "" in front of the first line. When WLM reformats the
paragraph, it adds "" to the beginning of each reformatted line.




Ugh! Not trying to tell you what to do, of course--it's your
choice--but why don't you dump the terrible Windows Live Mail and use
any of several much better programs instead?

  #7  
Old June 6th 12, 03:40 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Robert Redelmeier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 293
Default Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Ken Blake wrote in part:
On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:10:06 -0500, "R. C. White" wrote:
The transition to Win8 is going to be interesting! Win8 includes its own
Mail app, but it is much different from Windows Live Mail. Even here in
Win8 RP, I'm using WLM, not Win8's Mail. It's not clear yet whether that
will still be possible in the final version of Win8.


RC, how did you get the s in your reply? Did you add them manually?



FWIW, classic newsreaders like rn/nn/tin will do this automagically
so will classic email clients like elm/pine/mutt. As nearly nothing
from MSFT can be considered classic (MS-DOS is like a Trabant),
they won't do this by default, but might be configurable through
some obscure raindance that makes a SysV /etc/rc.d look sane.


-- Robert

  #8  
Old June 6th 12, 04:12 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
glee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS

I've used the ancient utilty QuoteClip (1994) for years, to do it for
me. I used it up through Windows XP, I haven't tried it in Win7 or on a
64-bit OS yet.
http://aumha.org/freeware/freeware.php#qclip

--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+
http://dts-l.net/


"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
Hi, Ken.

Yes, I had to add the ""'s manually.

For a single line, it's easy.

For a multi-line quote, I have to remove the internal line breaks,
then add just a single "" in front of the first line. When WLM
reformats the paragraph, it adds "" to the beginning of each
reformatted line.

RC


"Ken Blake" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 17:10:06 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote:

The transition to Win8 is going to be interesting! Win8 includes its
own
Mail app, but it is much different from Windows Live Mail. Even here
in
Win8 RP, I'm using WLM, not Win8's Mail. It's not clear yet whether
that
will still be possible in the final version of Win8.



RC, how did you get the s in your reply? Did you add them manually?


  #9  
Old June 6th 12, 02:11 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS

Hi, Ken.

...why don't you dump the terrible Windows Live Mail...


I've heard that advice many times over the last several years, especially
since MS killed their part of Usenet and crippled WLM. But OE/WM/WLM have
been such a large part of my computing environment for so long (since 1995!)
that I just hate to give it up. It's kind of like an old faithful dog that
needs to be put out of its misery - but I just can't bear to do that, yet.

Perhaps after the transition to Win8 is complete in a few months, it will be
the time for me to investigate the several alternatives recommended by you
and others. I do appreciate the advice; I'm just not (quite) ready to
follow it.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win8 (Release Preview)


"Ken Blake" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 20:16:58 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote:

Hi, Ken.

Yes, I had to add the ""'s manually.

For a single line, it's easy.

For a multi-line quote, I have to remove the internal line breaks, then
add
just a single "" in front of the first line. When WLM reformats the
paragraph, it adds "" to the beginning of each reformatted line.




Ugh! Not trying to tell you what to do, of course--it's your
choice--but why don't you dump the terrible Windows Live Mail and use
any of several much better programs instead?

  #10  
Old June 6th 12, 03:01 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips
Ken Blake[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Bit of a historical question: MS-DOS

On Wed, 6 Jun 2012 08:11:08 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote:

Hi, Ken.

...why don't you dump the terrible Windows Live Mail...


I've heard that advice many times over the last several years, especially
since MS killed their part of Usenet and crippled WLM. But OE/WM/WLM have
been such a large part of my computing environment for so long (since 1995!)
that I just hate to give it up.



Even though you have the extra work of putting in the s? Both in
newsgroups and E-mail?

Your choice of course, but for e-mail you might want to consider
Microsoft Outlook, which, as far as I'm concerned, is more like
Outlook Express than Windows Live Mail is. And I like Forte Agent for
a newsreader.


It's kind of like an old faithful dog that
needs to be put out of its misery - but I just can't bear to do that, yet.



OK. g

 




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