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HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 6th 18, 08:43 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
smallbore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade

On 02/05/2018 11:56 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:28:18 +0000 (UTC), dogs wrote:

I guess those are 500 GB? My smaller ST3160023A has "3 years, 4 months,
and 4 days" Power-On Hours. I think I bought it about 18 years ago.


I don't know how long I ran a some 200G Seagates. One SATA and a PATA
are left out of possibly three maybe four original units. I've backup
data the PATA, at least while MBs continue to provide the interface;-
same for the SATA, which is among storage drives that don't see a lot
of use, except for a powered USB docking stations. It's almost
ludicrous to admit a preferred efficiency I still like about my first
SSD, a Samsung 64G unit. My last 500- to 700G-class, a plattered
Western Digital HDD, though, still bears a brunt of downloadable
material, augmented by a couple other 250G-class SSDs, and organized
accordingingly for strategical advancement a SSD provides. The WD
will be next to go, placed in the dockting-station queue and replaced
by a 500-class SDD.

Another thing comes to mind, re the OP and Statistical Abstracts
provided by IT WEB "drive rankings". HDD manufacturers are neither
unaware of an unfavorable such publicity provides. At times farther
research is indicated, e.g. a HDD manufacturer model may be
subsequently "hidden", as an identifiable model, within and subject to
objectionable characteristics. Another area is updated drive firmware
ROM. One of my 2T drives was manufactured to cycle-out power states
inordinately. Jacking the power cycles, thereby shortening a drive
life span means. . .who needs integrity when spending more of your
money on failed drive replacements is vastly more interesting. The
manufacturer subsequently released a firmware patch to define a
definable maximum for nonintervention of data polling. The firmware
was a direct result from a class action lawsuit against the
manufacturer by the IT sector.


As always, I wonder what you said.

Gnome Disk Utility shows me

Self-test Result - Last self-test completed successfully
Self-assessment - Threshold not exceeded
Overall assessment - Disk is OK

And the assessment for every individual SMART Attribute is "OK" even
while three of the numbers in the table look bad.

Read Error Rate, when I mouse over it, pops a tooltip that tells me
"Frequency of errors while reading raw data from the disk. A non-zero
value indicates a problem with either the disk surface or read/write
heads" The Value column currently shows a staggering 36208573, while the
Assessment column says OK.

Can you help to further confound me? I'm looking forward to it.
  #12  
Old February 6th 18, 10:01 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 749
Default HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade

smallbore wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:56 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:28:18 +0000 (UTC), dogs wrote:

I guess those are 500 GB? My smaller ST3160023A has "3 years, 4 months,
and 4 days" Power-On Hours. I think I bought it about 18 years ago.


I don't know how long I ran a some 200G Seagates. One SATA and a PATA
are left out of possibly three maybe four original units. I've backup
data the PATA, at least while MBs continue to provide the interface;-
same for the SATA, which is among storage drives that don't see a lot
of use, except for a powered USB docking stations. It's almost
ludicrous to admit a preferred efficiency I still like about my first
SSD, a Samsung 64G unit. My last 500- to 700G-class, a plattered
Western Digital HDD, though, still bears a brunt of downloadable
material, augmented by a couple other 250G-class SSDs, and organized
accordingingly for strategical advancement a SSD provides. The WD
will be next to go, placed in the dockting-station queue and replaced
by a 500-class SDD.

Another thing comes to mind, re the OP and Statistical Abstracts
provided by IT WEB "drive rankings". HDD manufacturers are neither
unaware of an unfavorable such publicity provides. At times farther
research is indicated, e.g. a HDD manufacturer model may be
subsequently "hidden", as an identifiable model, within and subject to
objectionable characteristics. Another area is updated drive firmware
ROM. One of my 2T drives was manufactured to cycle-out power states
inordinately. Jacking the power cycles, thereby shortening a drive
life span means. . .who needs integrity when spending more of your
money on failed drive replacements is vastly more interesting. The
manufacturer subsequently released a firmware patch to define a
definable maximum for nonintervention of data polling. The firmware
was a direct result from a class action lawsuit against the
manufacturer by the IT sector.


As always, I wonder what you said.

Gnome Disk Utility shows me

Self-test Result - Last self-test completed successfully
Self-assessment - Threshold not exceeded
Overall assessment - Disk is OK

And the assessment for every individual SMART Attribute is "OK" even
while three of the numbers in the table look bad.

Read Error Rate, when I mouse over it, pops a tooltip that tells me
"Frequency of errors while reading raw data from the disk. A non-zero
value indicates a problem with either the disk surface or read/write
heads" The Value column currently shows a staggering 36208573, while the
Assessment column says OK.

Can you help to further confound me? I'm looking forward to it.


The only reliable indicators are Current Pending and Reallocated.
And of those, some drives don't even update Current Pending properly
and it always reads zero.

Reallocated is thresholded, and the drive looks healthy until
a large number of reallocations have occurred. The raw data
field goes from around 0-5500 or so, before the drive
would be considered "dead". It's the growth rate of that
raw data, that gives you some idea how much trouble
you're in. If Monday it says 100, Tuesday says 200, it's
time to do a backup before it is too late...

Raw Errors on a drive are not a problem, because the drive has
error correction and an error corrector polynomial. Again, you're
not in trouble, until the OS says "CRC error" and then you know
that sector/cluster is toast and so is your file resting on it.

The first indication of trouble, is running the free version
of HDTune and doing a transfer rate curve, and seeing a "bad spot"
in the curve for the disk. You will see "trouble" that way,
before Reallocated even goes non-zero. That's the most sensitive
test, even if occasionally it delivers a false positive. Some
drives (for reasons unknown), "perk up" if you write them from
end to end. And then when you run another transfer rate curve,
they look "OK" again. Weird stuff.

Between 42 and 48 here is a "bad spot", but this drive is
generally pretty ****ty. Notice the yellow seek dots are
way up high too, implying multiple rotations to get the data.
I would replace this.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/atta...une-jpg.49651/

This is a good drive. Only a couple of yellow dots are out-of-band.
And the transfer curve, from outer diameter to inner diameter,
shows the normal "zoned recording" pattern. The recording method
varies a bit, from zone to zone, giving a stair-step curve. I would
"give this drive to my mom" it's so nice.

https://overclock3d.net/gfx/articles...085804529l.jpg

The free version of HDTune is here. This version is now ten
years old, but it still works, and is all you need for this
work.

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

Paul
  #13  
Old February 7th 18, 12:51 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade

On 02/06/2018 4:01 PM, Paul wrote:
smallbore wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:56 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:28:18 +0000 (UTC), dogs wrote:

I guess those are 500 GB? My smaller ST3160023A has "3 years, 4 months,
and 4 days" Power-On Hours. I think I bought it about 18 years ago.


I don't know how long I ran a some 200G Seagates. One SATA and a PATA
are left out of possibly three maybe four original units.* I've backup
data the PATA, at least while MBs continue to provide the interface;-
same for the SATA, which is among storage drives that don't see a lot
of use, except for a powered USB docking stations.* It's almost
ludicrous to admit a preferred efficiency I still like about my first
SSD, a Samsung 64G unit.* My last 500- to 700G-class, a plattered
Western Digital HDD, though, still bears a brunt of downloadable
material, augmented by a couple other 250G-class SSDs, and organized
accordingingly for strategical advancement a SSD provides.* The WD
will be next to go, placed in the dockting-station queue and replaced
by a 500-class SDD.

Another thing comes to mind, re the OP and Statistical Abstracts
provided by IT WEB "drive rankings".* HDD manufacturers are neither
unaware of an unfavorable such publicity provides.* At times farther
research is indicated, e.g. a HDD manufacturer model may be
subsequently "hidden", as an identifiable model, within and subject to
objectionable characteristics.* Another area is updated drive firmware
ROM.* One of my 2T drives was manufactured to cycle-out power states
inordinately. Jacking the power cycles, thereby shortening a drive
life span means. . .who needs integrity when spending more of your
money on failed drive replacements is vastly more interesting.* The
manufacturer subsequently released a firmware patch to define a
definable maximum for nonintervention of data polling. The firmware
was a direct result from a class action lawsuit against the
manufacturer by the IT sector.


As always, I wonder what you said.

Gnome Disk Utility shows me

Self-test Result - Last self-test completed successfully
Self-assessment - Threshold not exceeded
Overall assessment - Disk is OK

And the assessment for every individual SMART Attribute is "OK" even
while three of the numbers in the table look bad.

Read Error Rate, when I mouse over it, pops a tooltip that tells me
"Frequency of errors while reading raw data from the disk. A non-zero
value indicates a problem with either the disk surface or read/write
heads" The Value column currently shows a staggering 36208573, while
the Assessment column says OK.

Can you help to further confound me? I'm looking forward to it.


The only reliable indicators are Current Pending and Reallocated.
And of those, some drives don't even update Current Pending properly
and it always reads zero.

Reallocated is thresholded, and the drive looks healthy until
a large number of reallocations have occurred. The raw data
field goes from around 0-5500 or so, before the drive
would be considered "dead". It's the growth rate of that
raw data, that gives you some idea how much trouble
you're in. If Monday it says 100, Tuesday says 200, it's
time to do a backup before it is too late...

Raw Errors on a drive are not a problem, because the drive has
error correction and an error corrector polynomial. Again, you're
not in trouble, until the OS says "CRC error" and then you know
that sector/cluster is toast and so is your file resting on it.

The first indication of trouble, is running the free version
of HDTune and doing a transfer rate curve, and seeing a "bad spot"
in the curve for the disk. You will see "trouble" that way,
before Reallocated even goes non-zero. That's the most sensitive
test, even if occasionally it delivers a false positive. Some
drives (for reasons unknown), "perk up" if you write them from
end to end. And then when you run another transfer rate curve,
they look "OK" again. Weird stuff.

Between 42 and 48 here is a "bad spot", but this drive is
generally pretty ****ty. Notice the yellow seek dots are
way up high too, implying multiple rotations to get the data.
I would replace this.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/atta...une-jpg.49651/

This is a good drive. Only a couple of yellow dots are out-of-band.
And the transfer curve, from outer diameter to inner diameter,
shows the normal "zoned recording" pattern. The recording method
varies a bit, from zone to zone, giving a stair-step curve. I would
"give this drive to my mom" it's so nice.

https://overclock3d.net/gfx/articles...085804529l.jpg

The free version of HDTune is here. This version is now ten
years old, but it still works, and is all you need for this
work.

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

** Paul


Hi Paul, I had never paid much attention to the band of yellow dots,
not knowing exactly what they signify.
So I took a closer look and I see they are pretty well arranged in a
fairly tight band. Posted a screenshot here.

https://postimg.org/image/chi8tbl6t/

Rene

  #14  
Old February 7th 18, 01:10 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 749
Default HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 02/06/2018 4:01 PM, Paul wrote:
smallbore wrote:
On 02/05/2018 11:56 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:28:18 +0000 (UTC), dogs wrote:

I guess those are 500 GB? My smaller ST3160023A has "3 years, 4
months,
and 4 days" Power-On Hours. I think I bought it about 18 years ago.


I don't know how long I ran a some 200G Seagates. One SATA and a PATA
are left out of possibly three maybe four original units. I've backup
data the PATA, at least while MBs continue to provide the interface;-
same for the SATA, which is among storage drives that don't see a lot
of use, except for a powered USB docking stations. It's almost
ludicrous to admit a preferred efficiency I still like about my first
SSD, a Samsung 64G unit. My last 500- to 700G-class, a plattered
Western Digital HDD, though, still bears a brunt of downloadable
material, augmented by a couple other 250G-class SSDs, and organized
accordingingly for strategical advancement a SSD provides. The WD
will be next to go, placed in the dockting-station queue and replaced
by a 500-class SDD.

Another thing comes to mind, re the OP and Statistical Abstracts
provided by IT WEB "drive rankings". HDD manufacturers are neither
unaware of an unfavorable such publicity provides. At times farther
research is indicated, e.g. a HDD manufacturer model may be
subsequently "hidden", as an identifiable model, within and subject to
objectionable characteristics. Another area is updated drive firmware
ROM. One of my 2T drives was manufactured to cycle-out power states
inordinately. Jacking the power cycles, thereby shortening a drive
life span means. . .who needs integrity when spending more of your
money on failed drive replacements is vastly more interesting. The
manufacturer subsequently released a firmware patch to define a
definable maximum for nonintervention of data polling. The firmware
was a direct result from a class action lawsuit against the
manufacturer by the IT sector.

As always, I wonder what you said.

Gnome Disk Utility shows me

Self-test Result - Last self-test completed successfully
Self-assessment - Threshold not exceeded
Overall assessment - Disk is OK

And the assessment for every individual SMART Attribute is "OK" even
while three of the numbers in the table look bad.

Read Error Rate, when I mouse over it, pops a tooltip that tells me
"Frequency of errors while reading raw data from the disk. A non-zero
value indicates a problem with either the disk surface or read/write
heads" The Value column currently shows a staggering 36208573, while
the Assessment column says OK.

Can you help to further confound me? I'm looking forward to it.


The only reliable indicators are Current Pending and Reallocated.
And of those, some drives don't even update Current Pending properly
and it always reads zero.

Reallocated is thresholded, and the drive looks healthy until
a large number of reallocations have occurred. The raw data
field goes from around 0-5500 or so, before the drive
would be considered "dead". It's the growth rate of that
raw data, that gives you some idea how much trouble
you're in. If Monday it says 100, Tuesday says 200, it's
time to do a backup before it is too late...

Raw Errors on a drive are not a problem, because the drive has
error correction and an error corrector polynomial. Again, you're
not in trouble, until the OS says "CRC error" and then you know
that sector/cluster is toast and so is your file resting on it.

The first indication of trouble, is running the free version
of HDTune and doing a transfer rate curve, and seeing a "bad spot"
in the curve for the disk. You will see "trouble" that way,
before Reallocated even goes non-zero. That's the most sensitive
test, even if occasionally it delivers a false positive. Some
drives (for reasons unknown), "perk up" if you write them from
end to end. And then when you run another transfer rate curve,
they look "OK" again. Weird stuff.

Between 42 and 48 here is a "bad spot", but this drive is
generally pretty ****ty. Notice the yellow seek dots are
way up high too, implying multiple rotations to get the data.
I would replace this.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/atta...une-jpg.49651/

This is a good drive. Only a couple of yellow dots are out-of-band.
And the transfer curve, from outer diameter to inner diameter,
shows the normal "zoned recording" pattern. The recording method
varies a bit, from zone to zone, giving a stair-step curve. I would
"give this drive to my mom" it's so nice.

https://overclock3d.net/gfx/articles...085804529l.jpg

The free version of HDTune is here. This version is now ten
years old, but it still works, and is all you need for this
work.

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

Paul


Hi Paul, I had never paid much attention to the band of yellow dots,
not knowing exactly what they signify.
So I took a closer look and I see they are pretty well arranged in a
fairly tight band. Posted a screenshot here.

https://postimg.org/image/chi8tbl6t/

Rene


It's some kind of seek test, and I normally don't pay too
much attention to it.

On an SSD, that band of yellow dots settles right to the bottom :-)

Paul
  #15  
Old February 7th 18, 03:12 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,023
Default HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade

On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 12:43:38 -0800, smallbore
wrote:

As always, I wonder what you said.


Basically, I've a disk which parks the head. As in the blink of an
eye. The manufacturer, at least for my drive, released firmware to
allow the user to flash for 300 seconds' park-it-time, instead of
*their* ROM-locked default, something ridiculous, like 10 seconds. And
the manufacturer only did it because of a class action lawsuit. What
they then did, is to change manufacturing to "hide", from the buyer,
the identifiers to drives that prematurely parked from those,
otherwise identical drives, that didn't.

Gnome Disk Utility shows me

Self-test Result - Last self-test completed successfully
Self-assessment - Threshold not exceeded
Overall assessment - Disk is OK

And the assessment for every individual SMART Attribute is "OK" even
while three of the numbers in the table look bad.

Read Error Rate, when I mouse over it, pops a tooltip that tells me
"Frequency of errors while reading raw data from the disk. A non-zero
value indicates a problem with either the disk surface or read/write
heads" The Value column currently shows a staggering 36208573, while the
Assessment column says OK.

Can you help to further confound me? I'm looking forward to it.


When is buying a drive, one which is to be presumed not to fail,
whether for a determinate based on reviews, software analysis, ever
less than a bit more like throwing a die for crap?

Rather than blame my lazy ass, because I've some of a tendency
(Ockham's) not to go looking for problems until they bite it.

Besides easier, probability conclusively substantiates as axiomatic,
to be a lazy ass, provided I can get off it, for not a moment longer
than necessary to keep an extra backup of anything worth keeping;-
thereby rendering chance, then equated to plugging in, powering up one
of either of two hard discs, accommodating identical data sets, such
to say, in an otherwise idealistic computer world, that both drives
will fail to render the data as intelligible.

Hopefully, I have by now achieved, tolerably to stimulate that
sensation of particular beingness, you apparently wish to confound.

-
Bet. You have no choice;- you're in the game. -Blaise Pascal
  #16  
Old February 7th 18, 06:30 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
smallbore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade

On 02/06/2018 07:12 PM, Flasherly wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 12:43:38 -0800, smallbore
wrote:

As always, I wonder what you said.


Basically, I've a disk which parks the head. As in the blink of an
eye. The manufacturer, at least for my drive, released firmware to
allow the user to flash for 300 seconds' park-it-time, instead of
*their* ROM-locked default, something ridiculous, like 10 seconds.
And the manufacturer only did it because of a class action lawsuit.
What they then did, is to change manufacturing to "hide", from the
buyer, the identifiers to drives that prematurely parked from those,
otherwise identical drives, that didn't.


Ah. I didn't find a linux-alternative for the HDTune that Paul
suggested, but I came across this.
__________

*change the idle3 timer of recent Western Digital Hard Disk Drives*

Idle3-tools provides a linux/unix utility that can disable, get and
set the value of the infamous idle3 timer found on recent Western
Digital Hard Disk Drives.

It can be used as an alternative to the official wdidle3.exe
proprietary utility, without the need to reboot in a DOS environment.

A power off/on cycle of the drive will still be mandatory for new
settings to be taken into account.

Modern Western Digital "Green" Drives include the Intellipark feature
that stops the disk when not in use.

Unfortunately, the default timer setting is not perfect on linux/unix
systems, including many NAS, and leads to a dramatic increase of the
Load Cycle Count value (SMART attribute #193). With the default timer
setting, the drive will spin down *every eight seconds* if idle and
this may get the spindle motor to burn out in a few months or so.

If you have a Western Digital EADS or EARS drive, please check you
SMART information before it's too late by running the following
command:

sudo smartctl -A /dev/sda | grep "^193"

If the Load cycle count (which is in the last column) exceeds 1000,
you're probably affected by the idle3 timer problem.
__________
  #17  
Old February 7th 18, 08:00 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,023
Default HD question consumer grade and enterprise grade

On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 22:30:32 -0800, smallbore
wrote:

If you have a Western Digital EADS or EARS drive, please check you
SMART information before it's too late by running the following
command:

sudo smartctl -A /dev/sda | grep "^193"

If the Load cycle count (which is in the last column) exceeds 1000,
you're probably affected by the idle3 timer problem.


Ah, yes. It's all suddenly coming back, flooding into my mind now.
Thanks, guy. (Seems I bought that drive 3 years ago.) I see I wasn't
customarily exaggerating 8 seconds of nonsense at an off-the-cuff
10secs. And that it's now risen up to Infamous status. DOS is second
nature to me, along with a lot of *NIXDOS programming ports, so I
wouldn't have thought twice, which I did, to max it out for 300secs.
from wdidle3.exe. ...Then, just to stomp it in, extra good, I
partitioned a token partition on that drive and defined it for where
Winderz's virtual swap file resides.
 




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