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Ping Paul - pre BIOS screen click ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 9th 18, 02:21 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Shadow[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default Ping Paul - pre BIOS screen click ?

Having trouble with my ASUS K8V-MX

Computer works fine for hours then suddenly bluescreens.
When I reboot, it sometimes works fine, but usually everything starts
up (fans, leds etc, I can hear the HD spinning up and the HD led stays
on), but there is no "click" and the BIOS screen does not appear.

If I wait 20 minutes or so with the power unplugged, it will boot
normally. If I leave the power plugged in, it will not.

Memtest normal, HD surface scan OK. Temperatures are normal as are the
voltages, according to HWMonitor.

What is the audible "click" I hear just before the BIOS screen, and
which does not happen when it refuses to boot ? I can't locate it.

Is it something on the MB or is it a PS "noise" ? I swapped out video
cards, nothing changed.
TIA
[]'s

PS My wife's Desktop, same MB but a later model is having exactly the
same issues ...
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #2  
Old February 9th 18, 03:44 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 656
Default Ping Paul - pre BIOS screen click ?

Shadow wrote:
Having trouble with my ASUS K8V-MX

Computer works fine for hours then suddenly bluescreens.
When I reboot, it sometimes works fine, but usually everything starts
up (fans, leds etc, I can hear the HD spinning up and the HD led stays
on), but there is no "click" and the BIOS screen does not appear.

If I wait 20 minutes or so with the power unplugged, it will boot
normally. If I leave the power plugged in, it will not.

Memtest normal, HD surface scan OK. Temperatures are normal as are the
voltages, according to HWMonitor.

What is the audible "click" I hear just before the BIOS screen, and
which does not happen when it refuses to boot ? I can't locate it.

Is it something on the MB or is it a PS "noise" ? I swapped out video
cards, nothing changed.
TIA
[]'s

PS My wife's Desktop, same MB but a later model is having exactly the
same issues ...


You can get "coil noise" on a step current flow change.

Also, capacitors can make noise when the dielectric is
charged or discharged. But usually it takes a lot to do
that. I had a ceramic capacitor being charged to
~120VDC at 1KHz and you could hear a 1KHz tone coming
from it. Just barely.

The Fujitsu version of that motherboard has a piezo speaker
on the motherboard. That could emit a click.

I can't find a real strong "bad caps" theme for the board,
but of all the things to wear out on a board, power is probably
the most likely failure type. Even caps that are visually in
good shape, they might not be that good inside.

Someone stuck a port card on their failing one, and code
stopped at 00, which is probably not the same state yours
is getting stuck in.

It's not likely your two machines would have correlated
failure of ATX power supplies. But the motherboards could
have the same component wearing out, whatever it is.

The miracle of electronics is it "mostly works". If the components
weren't reliable most of the time, we'd never get this **** running.

As an example, I had a PCB in the lab, tested and put in a storage
case. Three months later, the boss asked to set it up, and
it was failing on every test. On a hunch, he had it sent out
for continuity testing, and it came back with "300 open circuits".
These are copper connections that had broken while the board
sat quietly in a wooden shelf. The end result of that little
episode, is a local company no longer got to make PCBs
for us. We eventually ended up getting PCBs made on the
West Coast instead of from shops in town. Imagine if we were
still in that era, not being able to make a decent multilayer
PCB. Motherboards are pretty low quality... but they don't
have that problem.

Paul
  #3  
Old February 9th 18, 05:31 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Shadow[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default Ping Paul - pre BIOS screen click ?

On Fri, 09 Feb 2018 10:44:08 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Shadow wrote:
Having trouble with my ASUS K8V-MX

Computer works fine for hours then suddenly bluescreens.
When I reboot, it sometimes works fine, but usually everything starts
up (fans, leds etc, I can hear the HD spinning up and the HD led stays
on), but there is no "click" and the BIOS screen does not appear.

If I wait 20 minutes or so with the power unplugged, it will boot
normally. If I leave the power plugged in, it will not.

Memtest normal, HD surface scan OK. Temperatures are normal as are the
voltages, according to HWMonitor.

What is the audible "click" I hear just before the BIOS screen, and
which does not happen when it refuses to boot ? I can't locate it.

Is it something on the MB or is it a PS "noise" ? I swapped out video
cards, nothing changed.
TIA
[]'s

PS My wife's Desktop, same MB but a later model is having exactly the
same issues ...


You can get "coil noise" on a step current flow change.

Also, capacitors can make noise when the dielectric is
charged or discharged. But usually it takes a lot to do
that. I had a ceramic capacitor being charged to
~120VDC at 1KHz and you could hear a 1KHz tone coming
from it. Just barely.

The Fujitsu version of that motherboard has a piezo speaker
on the motherboard. That could emit a click.

I can't find a real strong "bad caps" theme for the board,
but of all the things to wear out on a board, power is probably
the most likely failure type. Even caps that are visually in
good shape, they might not be that good inside.

Someone stuck a port card on their failing one, and code
stopped at 00, which is probably not the same state yours
is getting stuck in.

It's not likely your two machines would have correlated
failure of ATX power supplies. But the motherboards could
have the same component wearing out, whatever it is.

The miracle of electronics is it "mostly works". If the components
weren't reliable most of the time, we'd never get this **** running.

As an example, I had a PCB in the lab, tested and put in a storage
case. Three months later, the boss asked to set it up, and
it was failing on every test. On a hunch, he had it sent out
for continuity testing, and it came back with "300 open circuits".
These are copper connections that had broken while the board
sat quietly in a wooden shelf. The end result of that little
episode, is a local company no longer got to make PCBs
for us. We eventually ended up getting PCBs made on the
West Coast instead of from shops in town. Imagine if we were
still in that era, not being able to make a decent multilayer
PCB. Motherboards are pretty low quality... but they don't
have that problem.


TY

I'll do a visual on the capacitors, and unplug my speaker next
time I boot and try to locate the click. Not doing it right now,
because I'm afraid it won't reboot. Ambient temp is in the 90's (34C
ATM), so when I said temperatures are "normal", I meant for Brazil.

HWMonitor

CPU 42C (oscillating very quickly between 40C to 45C
HD 41C (stable)
MB
SYSTIN 37C (stable)
CPUTYN 39C (stable)
AUXTIN 66C to 80C (oscillating quickly - no idea if this is
relevant).
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #4  
Old February 9th 18, 07:16 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 656
Default Ping Paul - pre BIOS screen click ?

Shadow wrote:


I'll do a visual on the capacitors, and unplug my speaker next
time I boot and try to locate the click. Not doing it right now,
because I'm afraid it won't reboot. Ambient temp is in the 90's (34C
ATM), so when I said temperatures are "normal", I meant for Brazil.

HWMonitor

CPU 42C (oscillating very quickly between 40C to 45C
HD 41C (stable)
MB
SYSTIN 37C (stable)
CPUTYN 39C (stable)
AUXTIN 66C to 80C (oscillating quickly - no idea if this is
relevant).
[]'s


There's always at least one sensor, that isn't connected
to anything real.

Paul
  #5  
Old February 9th 18, 11:25 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,936
Default Ping Paul - pre BIOS screen click ?

On Fri, 09 Feb 2018 15:31:06 -0200, Shadow wrote:

Having trouble with my ASUS K8V-MX

Computer works fine for hours then suddenly bluescreens.
When I reboot, it sometimes works fine, but usually everything starts
up (fans, leds etc, I can hear the HD spinning up and the HD led stays
on), but there is no "click" and the BIOS screen does not appear.

If I wait 20 minutes or so with the power unplugged, it will boot
normally. If I leave the power plugged in, it will not.

Memtest normal, HD surface scan OK. Temperatures are normal as are the
voltages, according to HWMonitor.

What is the audible "click" I hear just before the BIOS screen, and
which does not happen when it refuses to boot ? I can't locate it.

Is it something on the MB or is it a PS "noise" ? I swapped out video
cards, nothing changed.


My last Asus socket 754 was a K8N-E+. Also ran with an ASUS P4V8X-MX,
Intel socket 478.

Try, with the power logic, momentary turning it off, from the PS
unit's switch, for 10 seconds. Now turn it back on. Does the MB
power up, even with the BIOS selection for that (power up upon
restoration of power) turned off?

Also, when in a stalled condition, without a BIOS POST screen, hold
down the front case power button switch steadily for a power off. Does
it take a long time, having to hold in the button several seconds
before it shuts off? Will it post normally upon another button press
to turn on the computer?

The P4V8X-MX I can't recall major issues;- it probably was fine until
I decided to upgrade to newer models processor models among
multicores.

With the K8N-E+, however, I recall putting in three or four PS
replacement units. Seems it worked fine (for around five years),
whereupon oncoming flakiness only worsened. Your MB is going on,
between 10 or more years, since its production date. You should be
patting yourself so hard on the back, you might be danger of
dislocating a shoulder ligaments.

That particular ASUS AMD MB is notably why I switched, off of ASUS, to
Gigabyte. The two Gigabyte models I subsequently owned continued to
operate with surprising regularity and integrity. One is still in
service, this one (it says HI!) -- four times upgraded and presently
maxed-out with Intels I've bought used from Ebay -- while the other,
an AMD Gigabyte model, (also upgrade four times with pulled processors
from Ebay), is functionally perfect (albeit on a shelf near
mostly-open windows...hmmm). I replaced the last-mentioned AMD with
another Gigabyte (AMD model) for updating to the next generation MPUs,
populated with my octal-core Bulldozer, at the insemination of the
Ryzen releases.

As I said, I did have some notable luck with my K8N-E+, to keep it
hobbling along, after sorts, with PS replacements. In fact, convinced
the MB was a notorious "Power Supply Eater", virtually everyone
confounded told me, then, that could never be: MBs do not exist as
Eaters of Power Supplies, because, such as they are, electronically,
that can never be other than a logical impossibility.

As I still remain, begging to differ, & et cetera -F
  #6  
Old February 10th 18, 01:40 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Shadow[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default Ping Paul - pre BIOS screen click ?

On Fri, 09 Feb 2018 14:16:32 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Shadow wrote:


I'll do a visual on the capacitors, and unplug my speaker next
time I boot and try to locate the click. Not doing it right now,
because I'm afraid it won't reboot. Ambient temp is in the 90's (34C
ATM), so when I said temperatures are "normal", I meant for Brazil.

HWMonitor

CPU 42C (oscillating very quickly between 40C to 45C
HD 41C (stable)
MB
SYSTIN 37C (stable)
CPUTYN 39C (stable)
AUXTIN 66C to 80C (oscillating quickly - no idea if this is
relevant).
[]'s


There's always at least one sensor, that isn't connected
to anything real.


What I thought.
Capacitors appear OK, The click does not come from the
speaker (I disconnected it), and does not happen unless I shut down
(click) or boot from zero (click).
A reboot brings up the BIOS screen with no audible click.
Still can't locate it. I'd need to stick my head in to get
some sort of binaural geolocation. And it won't fit.

I use a Corsair PS, which are usually reliable ...
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #7  
Old February 10th 18, 01:55 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Shadow[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default Ping Paul - pre BIOS screen click ?

On Fri, 09 Feb 2018 18:25:44 -0500, Flasherly
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Feb 2018 15:31:06 -0200, Shadow wrote:

Having trouble with my ASUS K8V-MX

Computer works fine for hours then suddenly bluescreens.
When I reboot, it sometimes works fine, but usually everything starts
up (fans, leds etc, I can hear the HD spinning up and the HD led stays
on), but there is no "click" and the BIOS screen does not appear.

If I wait 20 minutes or so with the power unplugged, it will boot
normally. If I leave the power plugged in, it will not.

Memtest normal, HD surface scan OK. Temperatures are normal as are the
voltages, according to HWMonitor.

What is the audible "click" I hear just before the BIOS screen, and
which does not happen when it refuses to boot ? I can't locate it.

Is it something on the MB or is it a PS "noise" ? I swapped out video
cards, nothing changed.


My last Asus socket 754 was a K8N-E+. Also ran with an ASUS P4V8X-MX,
Intel socket 478.


Mine's an AMD

Try, with the power logic, momentary turning it off, from the PS
unit's switch, for 10 seconds. Now turn it back on. Does the MB
power up, even with the BIOS selection for that (power up upon
restoration of power) turned off?


Don't think I have that option. I'll look.

Also, when in a stalled condition, without a BIOS POST screen, hold
down the front case power button switch steadily for a power off. Does
it take a long time, having to hold in the button several seconds
before it shuts off? Will it post normally upon another button press
to turn on the computer?


The PS will NOT turn off when it's stalled, no matter how long
I press the button. HD led etc remain on.

The P4V8X-MX I can't recall major issues;- it probably was fine until
I decided to upgrade to newer models processor models among
multicores.

With the K8N-E+, however, I recall putting in three or four PS
replacement units. Seems it worked fine (for around five years),
whereupon oncoming flakiness only worsened. Your MB is going on,
between 10 or more years, since its production date. You should be
patting yourself so hard on the back, you might be danger of
dislocating a shoulder ligaments.


My MB is only 13 years old. My ASUS TX still works fine ...
and I built that PC 20 years ago.
But you might be right. Nothing is built to last these days
....


That particular ASUS AMD MB is notably why I switched, off of ASUS, to
Gigabyte. The two Gigabyte models I subsequently owned continued to
operate with surprising regularity and integrity. One is still in
service, this one (it says HI!) -- four times upgraded and presently
maxed-out with Intels I've bought used from Ebay -- while the other,
an AMD Gigabyte model, (also upgrade four times with pulled processors
from Ebay), is functionally perfect (albeit on a shelf near
mostly-open windows...hmmm). I replaced the last-mentioned AMD with
another Gigabyte (AMD model) for updating to the next generation MPUs,
populated with my octal-core Bulldozer, at the insemination of the
Ryzen releases.


It's sometimes luck. I've been lucky with ASUS so far .....
I had a Soyo that ****ed the contents of the capacitors all over the
MB a year after I bought it.

As I said, I did have some notable luck with my K8N-E+, to keep it
hobbling along, after sorts, with PS replacements. In fact, convinced
the MB was a notorious "Power Supply Eater", virtually everyone
confounded told me, then, that could never be: MBs do not exist as
Eaters of Power Supplies, because, such as they are, electronically,
that can never be other than a logical impossibility.


It could be the PS. It always switches off fine under Linux,
but under XP it sometimes hangs after the screen goes dark, and I have
to turn it off at the mains. About once every 4 - 5 shutdowns. I
tested the voltages, and they are all OK, but intermittent problems
are sht to investigate.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #8  
Old February 10th 18, 06:18 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,936
Default Ping Paul - pre BIOS screen click ?

On Fri, 09 Feb 2018 23:55:54 -0200, Shadow wrote:

The PS will NOT turn off when it's stalled, no matter how long
I press the button. HD led etc remain on.


OK. I've run into oddball power issues, where holding in the case
button will power it down, although it takes an inordinate time. If
yours remains locked up, that's something else.

Presumably the reset is also locked out from whatever else is going
on. Lower everything feasible in the BIOS: Your CPU speed, notably,
to something workable under its default.

And watch for a PS unit if you don't have a spare. I like having a
known fresh unit around. I "feel better" with an extra, than the
alternative...poking around with a multimeter when without one.

My MB is only 13 years old. My ASUS TX still works fine ...
and I built that PC 20 years ago.
But you might be right. Nothing is built to last these days


You're an anomaly, even for 13 years. Most MB are doing well enough,
decently expected, to reach five years;- beyond and ten, that's
pushing it. IMO. My last Asus socket 754, the K8N-E+ I mentioned, (I
bought the ASUS Intel MB model about the same time), was incidentally
a returned product. Probably in the same ASUS family of products, as
yours, although a "Deluxe model". I did however get at least three to
five good years off it, anyway;- probably ditched it shortly after
that.

It's sometimes luck. I've been lucky with ASUS so far .....
I had a Soyo that ****ed the contents of the capacitors all over the
MB a year after I bought it.


Nasty, that they actually leaked out of the Soyo. I ran with quite a
few MSI boards, probably AMD K6 sockets, which I liked, before going
with the two ASUS models (that was my first Intel, a Duron, since a
386SX). There's really no reason not to go with solid-state
capacitors, at least "promoted" among all the serious MB makes, these
days.

It could be the PS. It always switches off fine under Linux,
but under XP it sometimes hangs after the screen goes dark, and I have
to turn it off at the mains. About once every 4 - 5 shutdowns. I
tested the voltages, and they are all OK, but intermittent problems
are sht to investigate.


Intermittency is certainly no stranger to computers. More severe a
degree for some, less for others, but an eventuality over a matter of
time for all. Always a spectre of horrors haunting unpreparedness, an
extent of inconvenience potentially to kludging together a solution
for apparent inconsistencies;- A "computer law", otherwise to budget
wisely for catastrophic preparation at the next nearest phase;- Least
to nothing spent, being for the most amount of pleasure/efficiency
derived, for some, I as personally count the mark of experience.
  #9  
Old February 10th 18, 05:21 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,936
Default Ping Paul - pre BIOS screen click ?

On Fri, 09 Feb 2018 23:40:09 -0200, Shadow wrote:

Still can't locate it. I'd need to stick my head in to get
some sort of binaural geolocation. And it won't fit.


A long screwdriver, stick, or something to conduct sound. Put the
other end directly behind the ear, at the bone closest the ear flap,
place variously and listen for pitches and volume. I've a mechanic's
stethoscope.
  #10  
Old February 11th 18, 12:27 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Shadow[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default Ping Paul - pre BIOS screen click ?

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 12:21:17 -0500, Flasherly
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Feb 2018 23:40:09 -0200, Shadow wrote:

Still can't locate it. I'd need to stick my head in to get
some sort of binaural geolocation. And it won't fit.


A long screwdriver, stick, or something to conduct sound. Put the
other end directly behind the ear, at the bone closest the ear flap,
place variously and listen for pitches and volume. I've a mechanic's
stethoscope.


Been there, done that. Listening to the tappets on my V8. But
that was almost 50 decades ago.
I'll give it a go. Wooden screwdriver, or I'll do myself a
ECT.

[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
 




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